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"When the building was designed, the intention was to have the highest class technology. This ensures that when we open the building, me and my team can spend more time on proactively managing the building and understanding what’s working and what isn’t without being reactive to issues when they arise.”
—George Garth
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Episode 167 is a conversation with George Garth from Harris Capital, Justin Anders from COMMSecurity, and Matthew Taylor from NDY.
Episode 167 features George Garth from Harris Capital, Justin Anders from COMMSecurity, and Matthew Taylor from NDY and is our 12th episode in the Case Study series looking at real-life, large-scale deployments of smart building technologies. These are not marketing fluff stories, these are lessons from leaders that others can put into use in their smart buildings programs. This conversation explores Harris Capital's partnership with KODE Labs and the building of Gate 8. Enjoy!
Monologue from George (0:00)
Introduction (2:06)
Intro to George (2:46)
Vendor team (5:04)
Intro to Matthew (7:20)
Intro to Justin (8:20)
Building size (10:00)
Core Opportunities (17:40)
OT Systems (20:56)
Packaging (22:14)
Next Steps (40:53)
Lessons Learned (45:30)
Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tiger—licensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S612980-16073.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
George Garth: [00:00:00] Gate 8 is conceived, um, by the Harris family and Jeff Harris as a, as a legacy building to, um, with one purpose in mind, which is to supercharge philanthropy, social enterprise, and the next generation of Australia's great entrepreneurs. The building named Gate 8 is a nod to the world famous Melbourne Cricket Ground, which is next door to us.
And, uh, if you live in Melbourne, you'll often hear somebody say, I'll meet you at Gate 6, or I'll meet you at Gate 7. And, uh, the name Gate 8 is to say we'd like to welcome you. and meet you at Gate 8. Well, when the building is first designed, um, the intention was to have the highest class fit out as well as the highest class, uh, technology.
Uh, technology all the way through the building from the tenant side through to the base build systems. Making sure we've got the best quality technology from the base build side ensures that when, uh, we open the building, which we're very close to doing, we're That means my team can spend more time on proactively manage the building and [00:01:00] understanding, you know, what works and what doesn't work in the building without, um, being reactive and responding to issues when they arise.
That means my team can focus on ensuring the building experience is maximized rather than spending time on fixing problems day to day and having to employ a big team to run the site.
James Dice: Hey friends, if you like the Nexus podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community. There are three ways to do that. First, you can join the Nexus Pro Membership. It's our global community of smart building professionals. We have monthly events, paywall deep dive content, and a private chat room, and it's just 35 a month.
Second, you can upgrade from the Pro Membership to our courses offering. It's headlined by our flagship course, the Smart Building Strategist. And we're building a catalog of courses taught by world leading experts on each topic under the smart buildings umbrella. Third and finally, our marketplace is how we connect leading vendors with buyers looking for their solutions.
The links are [00:02:00] below in the show notes. And now let's go on to the podcast.
Welcome to the Nexus Podcast. This is the latest episode in our series diving into case studies of real life deployments of smart building technologies. And I emphasize real life because we're not here to create some sort of fluff story. We never do that. We're here to share lessons from a few leaders, uh, from a specific project.
Um, so that others can put these lessons to use, uh, in their smart buildings, programs, and projects. So today we have a story coming from Harris Capital, uh, a fund management and investment company located in Melbourne, Australia. And, um, I have George Garth here, who's general manager of property and operations at Harris Capital.
George, can you introduce yourself?
George Garth: Yeah, thanks James. Yeah. George Garth, as said, GM of property here at Harris Capital and, um, one of the key components of my role is delivering, uh, Gate 8 here in East Melbourne in Victoria, [00:03:00]Australia and, um, both bringing the building alive and then running it at a high level, uh, once we're open for the years to come.
Previously, I've worked with the Harris family in another business, which is a co working flex office space. So I spent a lot of time on the tenant side fit out, and so I've come to work with the Harris family and the GateAid team to deliver the full building to all the tenants. Harris related companies and partners.
James Dice: Absolutely. This building is sounds so cool. It reminds me of, um, this building in Denver here where I'm from called the Alliance Center, and it's only for sustainability focused, small, entrepreneurial companies, and it's also a very high performance building as well. So. Uh, it's almost like a sister building.
It's also small as well. It's a, it's only like 40, 000 square feet. But, um, for those of you that are listening to this, you want to check out a case study on that building. Uh, we'll put that in the show notes as well, uh, to, [00:04:00] to sort of show a little American, Australian, uh, yeah, synchronicity here.
George Garth: Absolutely. And look, to touch on one of the exciting things about this building too is it's, uh, it's a, it's a mix of, um, both commercial businesses and, uh, social enterprise businesses. Um, Gate 8 Level 4 is actually being donated to, uh, three not for profits, um, to re, uh, reposition themselves in, here at East Melbourne, uh, to run their operations out of here.
And so having that mix of commercial businesses and social enterprise is exciting for me and everyone in the building.
James Dice: All right, let's run through a couple of rapid fire questions so people understand sort of the context of this case study. Um, so first of all, people need to understand that this is a new construction building.
Um, it's solo in terms of there's not really a portfolio. So everything we're talking about today is just focused on this new construction project. Um, Next question is sort of like, who's your vendor team? Uh, we're going to bring on some, [00:05:00] some helpers here that are from the vendor team, but just give us an overview, um, of, of who you're working with to create this smart building.
George Garth: From my perspective, the first, um, one of the first key partners here was NDY. And, um, Matthew Taylor here to, um, design the building all the way from, you know, the, the fit out and in particular the, um, the technology that sits underneath it. Um, the tenant side network, which, you know, obviously Wi Fi network and those and AV and those sorts of things.
But then for the context of here today, super important is, um, you know, all the base build systems as well. So NDY is a key partner there. And then, of course, in terms of, in terms of the design, and then in terms of delivering it, um, Justin Anders from CommSecurity has led us there and has been a huge help.
Um, throughout that process and, uh, yeah, the key partner for us there too, in terms of delivering the design. And then, of course, the platform, which is, underpins everything we do here in [00:06:00] terms of delivering the basebuild system, is KODE, which, um, they've been great partners to work with. Their technology, uh, it's the first time I've dealt with it and, um, yeah, super excited to really get it out there.
Um, or not just launch, but flying.
James Dice: Totally. All right. And then, um, give us an idea of, um, as you mentioned, the, the building's almost complete. Um, when did you start this process and when do you see this sort of ending?
George Garth: So the actual, the actual property was purchased back in 2018 with plans to have it developed in a couple of years time.
But of course, COVID and the pandemic and lockdown slowed us all down. Um, and so it's really been probably here in Melbourne since mid 2022 that, um, we've been able to ramp the project back up. Yeah, in that, in that time, NDY has been engaged quite a bit as part of the design process and then I've worked with Justin now quite closely since late last year.
And, um, and we're, we're right there. So the building [00:07:00] is partially completed at the moment. Not, not quite all the way there. Um, but in the coming weeks, we'll, um, it'll all be pulled together and, and, uh, be fully operational.
James Dice: Okay. Let's bring in our friends then. So, so we have Matthew Taylor here from ND, NDY.
Matthew, can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about, um, for those people that don't know NDY, what do you guys do?
Matthew Taylor: I'm Matt Taylor from NDY. So NDY is an engineering consultancy in Australia, across Australia. Um, I am the smart buildings lead for the state of Victoria. Um, so we cover off everything technology really.
Uh, but that also includes things like control systems, ICT, AV, um, security systems, so yeah, quite a broad, broad team.
James Dice: Yeah. And one of the things we'll, we'll unpack a little bit is when you guys are doing this smart building stuff, usually it's, we're usually talking about bigger buildings, um, portfolios of bigger buildings usually.
And, and what's unique about this one is it's about, for those of you in the U S about a hundred thousand square feet. Uh, I [00:08:00] don't know what that is, square meters, but, uh, Less than that. Something like that. Yeah, 10, 000. Um, so it's a small building. Typically don't get this level of intelligence, uh, and something like this.
So we'll, we'll unpack like what that meant in the design and construction process. Um, next I want to bring in, uh, Justin Anders from CommSecurity. Justin, can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about, uh, what CommSecurity does?
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, hello. Justin Anders from CommSecurity and general manager.
Um, CommSecurity is an access control and technology integration business. Been around for five to six years and recently became Australia's certified channel partner with KODE Labs. I've been engaged with KODE Labs in my previous life as a smart building consultant and then shifted across to be a integrator as I saw a niche in the market where services of.
integrating, uh, smart building platforms, um, [00:09:00] can, can really use a boost. So, um, yeah, so CommSecurity is predominantly an access control company, but the synergies between that ICN and networks and smart building platforms, uh, really intertwined together and conform a really good package to clients, builders.
And when you have alignment with, you know, the whole delivery team, um, then you can get some really great outcomes.
James Dice: Totally. And do you guys, Justin, do you go to market as a master systems integrator or is that term?
Justin Anders: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. My master systems integrator or a network systems integrator.
Um, we provide all of those roles as part of our package for, for clients.
James Dice: All right. So let's talk about this project. Um, It sounds like it was a long time in the making, and we're getting close to the finish line here. Um, I think the way I want to start this is with, um, why, let's talk a little bit more about why we decided to diverge from the path of a typical 100, 000 square foot [00:10:00] office building in Australia.
Um, so Matt, maybe you can talk about What would that building typically look like? And George, kind of weigh in as well.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, I guess a building of this size tends to be, uh, done on lower budgets. It tends to be, you know, a very focused, um, construct. And then leave and figure out the operations later. It's a very classic kind of model of delivery, you know, smaller buildings.
Um, where there's very little thought given to the technology. It's just about, you know, getting services in there. And then that's the end of it. Right. And so, uh, this building just, it didn't need that, you know, it operates, uh, very much like a kind of owner operator type building and, and the, that operations piece, you know, thinking about it from the start, I guess for a building of this size is super rare, but it's been a really awesome thing to do.
James Dice: Yeah. And George, can you tell that story from your side? Like, like, when did you make that decision to, um, It sounds like if I'm, if I'm just reading between the lines, it sounds like you, you foresaw [00:11:00] the need to operate this building on lower, lower staff and lower labor than, you know, a typical building.
So did you kind of make that decision to say, okay, we're going to supplement our lack of staffing with, with a technology here?
George Garth: Yeah, absolutely. It's like, uh, Brad and I have, uh, worked together for some time and, and, Myself in particular, like I mentioned earlier, I've been on the tenant side quite a bit and dealt with building owners and, and seeing the, seeing the issues that come with, um, doing it, let's say, as per the status quo.
Um, so it's not only that, like being able to just manage a building better, um, but yes, once, once we're open and running, we want to be able to, Manage the building with fewer people, um, and, and be proactively manage the building, managing the building, um, rather than, rather than reactive, um, both, both as a building owner, um, but also just, uh, as Matt mentioned, a lot of our partner [00:12:00] businesses in here as well, so it is somewhat of an owner operator.
Um, and being a multi use building as well from events on the ground floor, a food and beverage offering on the top floor and commercial use through the middle. Um, it's not just sort of one set of problems that, you know, are likely to arise. It could be a full, full spectrum. So having, um, Having all the systems integrated into a system like KODE, meaning that we can, uh, be on top of everything as, uh, before it, before it becomes a real problem, um, rather than later on.
And so going into, yeah, going into the design, wanted to make sure that we had the technology to, to do that.
James Dice: Absolutely. What about the, um, sustainability or energy performance outcomes or goals that you were trying to hit as well? Is there anything there to cover?
George Garth: Yeah, absolutely. So as part of the fit out, um, um, We are achieving a six star green star rating and is that the right number, Justin?
Yep. [00:13:00] And then, uh, as part of the ongoing building, uh, uh, 5. 5 neighbors rating. Uh, so, so sustainability of a big part of both the fit out and the ongoing operations as well. And it all ties back to, again, uh, being able to manage the, uh, systems of the building as effectively as possible.
James Dice: Totally. And, um, I also wanted to pull in, you mentioned tenant experience or occupant experience earlier.
Can you talk about like what, it sounds like if again, I'm like, if I'm reflecting what you said back to you, you're trying to, this is a very mission oriented building and you're trying to foster a certain environment for the tenants. Can you talk about like what that is and how technology can sort of play into that?
George Garth: What, what this building is trying to achieve is to be. A legacy building for the Harris Group of Companies, um, as well as an icon in Melbourne. Um, so when, and I'll start from the aesthetic side because it sort of [00:14:00] goes backwards from there, so when you enter the lobby, it's a grand lobby, double story, there's a huge auditorium on one end, um, beautiful mezzanine, and then Going up to the top floor on level six called Jollymon House, which I'm in now.
Um, one of the rooms here is fitted out like a library, like you can see. Um, we've got this food and beverage offering and a terrace just behind me that overlooks the MCG. So, that is the nature of the building that, you know, Everyone wanted to, yeah, that we wanted to deliver here. And so being able to, and then matching that with everything else that sits underneath it is, uh, is super important.
I
Matthew Taylor: think, I think cohesive, uh, user experience was, was a huge part of that story. Um, so, you know, it was. In a lot of the discussions from early days, all the way through to, you know, when we started procuring the mobile app, you know, it was about what's that user experience for people, you know, whether it's through the smart lockers, whether it's through booking, you know, um, spaces [00:15:00] within, within the building, there's, you know, the gym, there's the auditorium.
How do you, how do you access those for, you know, different tenants? The food and beverage space, how do you order your food? You know, can you do that through, through QR codes, through the app? You know, having that whole technology, um, I guess, uh, experience thought through from the beginning was, was a, you know, a really key thing I guess for the building so that it doesn't matter who you are, whether you were just a visitor coming in, you got visit management systems, you know, or whether you are in, in the coworking space, or whether your company associated with Harris Capital, you know, in their space.
You're having that same, you know, experience in the building.
James Dice: Totally. And Matt, can you talk about how your design process, and I say your, I mean, you guys probably had many different designers engaged across NDY for all the different, you know, verticals in the building, but talk about your design process in terms of, um, how are you trying to take the.
Those goals that George talked about. So basically operations, sustainability, user experience, [00:16:00] tenant experience. How are you translating that into, um, design docs, basically? How, what, what was that process like? Um,
Matthew Taylor: so. I guess the focusing on the technology piece, um, we try to not talk about technology at the start.
So, um, we try to talk about challenges, opportunities, you know, the experience, try and understand how people are going to use the space first, and then we'll translate that into technology largely because people come with, you know, a set of preconceptions about what What building technology can do and we want to try and get those out of the first conversations and then start to To bring in technology to do the best things it can Um, but you end up with an enormous list which we did for this project.
I had a look back. I think we had like over 100 different opportunities Um spread across user groups or personas So then obviously you go about the process of whittling that down. Um, you know, we condensed it into something that was the right price point and the right, um, you know, set of [00:17:00]priorities for this building eventually.
Um, yeah, and then we joined, joined the rest of the fray doing the core of the design and, uh, you know, the, the whole journey of, I guess, Making sure that this is tightly, uh, weaved into all the components of design, which is always such a huge piece of delivering technology.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. I'm sure Justin then like, uh, helped out at that point, but I want to circle back to one thing you said around, let's just like really ground this in the core.
User personas and use cases that you prioritize. So all of the hundred plus, you know, opportunities you had, what are the core things, because I feel like it gets kind of hand wavy sometime when we talk about smart building platforms and all of that, I'd really love for you to just like some succinctly summarize.
What are we doing smart building stuff for and who?
Matthew Taylor: I guess key personas are going to be, um, firstly facilities management team, um, which in this case is, is George as one of his many hats. Um, and then, uh, we've got the users [00:18:00] of the building. So your typical users, the tenants. I'm using the building. Uh, visitors is another key persona for us.
Um, so there probably are three main personas, uh, for this building. Um, you know, we were also lucky enough to get, uh, some good input directly from, you know, Brad Harris, um, in part, in part of the process, which is, which is really nice to have. Uh, and get, you know, a really good eye into his vision for the building.
Um, and then it's just about how we improve those individual kind of persona experiences. So, you know, the visitor one is visitor management systems. It's about how people are welcomed into the building. Um, the facilities management one is, is really where we were driving through COVID labs, having that kind of single, um, picture of the entire building.
Uh, but it's also our. Kind of point of iteration for us integrating into the mobile app and sharing data with other systems. Um, but you know, Georgia, there's many hats. Um, getting that single snapshot of how the building is [00:19:00]now, um, combined with fault detection, diagnostics, you know, the analytic component, being able to actually tell them when things are actually wrong, um, is, you know, a key part of, of the strategy.
Just, just making life easier, right?
James Dice: Yeah. So George, this is an interesting one because of a lot of times we, on this podcast, I feel like we talk about, um, use cases for users like you, but they're thinking about many buildings. It seems like you're, you're just thinking about one building, but you're, you're doing more jobs than people typically do.
Can you talk about the different like hats you're wearing and sort of build on what Matt's talking about in terms of like how you're actually going to use the platform in your operational processes?
George Garth: Yeah, for sure. So in terms of, in terms of my role, um, yeah, it is rather than being multiple properties.
Uh, it is one person, but multiple, multiple roles. Uh, so from the concierge to the office managers to the, uh, level six venue management, that's, they're all part of my team. So that's all [00:20:00] experience. Um, from a tenant side IT. Uh, network status, um, position. That's, that's, that comes through to me as well. And then, and our IT partners.
Um, we've got an app and, uh, a bunch of different comms channels that sort of ultimately comes under my wing as well. But of course then, just the facilities management and the, the day to day mechanics of running the building too, that comes to me. So, what we want to be able to achieve is essentially, have, have a team of people that can focus, uh, focus mainly on the experience and running the, the way people use the building and have a, have a smaller team running that FM side of the building.
Um, so in order to do that, um, we'd lean on lean on technology.
James Dice: So, so Matt, can you talk about, um, all the different OT systems you wanted to integrate together, um, and sort of how [00:21:00] they were then feeding into these different use cases?
Matthew Taylor: Yeah sure so um, a lot of the usual ones, your BMS, lighting control, um, emergency lighting you know access control systems, CCTV, the ICT network itself which is ICN in Australia, and yeah really pulling everything together in the building into into a So, you know, we do have systems that are connected in, like, I think the lockers, uh, that are not necessarily there to be, you know, controlled and used through, through the platform, but having a central point of alarm management is, is super useful, right?
So you're not having to log into 10 systems to find out what's gone wrong. Um, so that's a huge, huge part of it, uh, and then that's very much the back of house component, the facilities management piece, and then a lot of the front of house user experience, you know, from comms, as in, you know, the pushing messaging through to building documents all the way through to building access.
Uh, is typically [00:22:00] through the mobile app.
James Dice: Alright, so Matt, you, you packaged it like basically all of these outcomes. You got use cases, you're trying to enable these different users like George to, you know, do their jobs better. How did you then package that all into something that you could take to market and figure out what vendors you're going to select, what they're going to do, what teams there are, like that kind of thing.
Tell us about that process. Okay. Thank you.
Matthew Taylor: So, um, fairly traditional process in that in that sense. We package everything up into specifications. Um, you know, we have all our technical requirements in there, but I think a key thing for us is making sure that the actual performance of the solution, you know, the outcomes that we're looking to target are part of that.
And then that went to market. So we went, um, as a, as a group to, to build on, they've bought the trades. Um, and a key thing for this solution was always going to be that ability to, to actually scale down, right? So lots of integrations, small scale building, how do you keep your price point from, uh, not ballooning comparative [00:23:00] to the, to the size of the construction project.
Um, and so I think going down a SaaS route was always going to be a favorable thing, uh, for, for a building like this. And so software as a service, um, and another benefit there being, you know, in the operations side where you don't have to, uh, manually look after, um, a set of technologies. You can, you can wrap that under a single procurement, um, you know, in the operations phase.
That's what led us into PACE. Yeah, the journey with, with KODE, I guess. Um, so, uh, they came through, uh, with the Builder team. Um, I actually moved to Australia from, uh, the UK, uh, from London about three and a half years ago. Um, and while KODE, KODE is quite new in the Australian market in relative terms, um, we've been using them in the UK.
And so, yeah, we had that familiarity, um, knew the product, you know, reasonably well. Um, and yeah, it was a good, a good fit for, for everything that the building needed.
James Dice: Totally. And can you talk about the selection process? That's one of the things that our team has [00:24:00] been really nerding out on recently. As we've built, we keep building and building our, our marketplace product, but, um, the ability for you as the consultant to view all of these different options.
Um, you know, KODE's not the only one that does stuff like this. So how did you select and decide that KODE is the best partner for Harris?
Matthew Taylor: It's a good question. Um, and different. Approach is going to market, you know, allow us different levels of control. Uh, in this case, um, you know, it was everything was set on the builder, right?
So in theory, we had very little control over, over a specific selection. Um, but you know, especially working on a building of this size, you've got builders that don't even typically have a services manager, right? Let alone have someone who understands technology. They really wrapped us into that process to help them, you know, to say, what, what is the best thing that we pick here?
Can we use this product? Is this the right thing? Um, and so we kind of, I guess helped, helped the [00:25:00] builder through that process. And, and, you know, we, we ended up on, on it largely as the right price point, I think, uh, and meeting all the requirements that we had in our specification, because say before, you know, the, the trick with these buildings is always going to be, how do you scale down appropriately?
And, and quite, quite a hard thing to do, I think, for, for many businesses.
James Dice: Yeah. And one of the fascinating things here from my standpoint, just learning about this project for the first time is, um, you have a bunch of diverse requirements. So we've talked about integrating all of these into one single pane of glass.
We've talked about FDD. We've talked about providing data to a user experience application. All of those things may be in the, in the old days, like you would, might require them to happen across different platforms, but it seems like one value here is you could select one software vendor. They're checking all of the boxes.
It feels like that you, that you said when you laid out your use cases, is that one of the, Things that happened here.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I [00:26:00] mean, it's, we're always piecing together more than one technology, I think, in a, in a, in a smart building project, but the integration platform is such a key, key part of it.
Right. And not just for the facilities team, but also from a, from a technology architecture perspective for, you know, allowing us to integrate vastly different sets of data into, into other systems. Right. Um, and so it's a real key kind of linchpin and, and. In the way the building is going to function.
James Dice: Totally. Okay. So Justin, you guys came in with the builder then as a, you know, integrator and reseller of the software. Um, tell, tell us about how you then got integrated into the project. Um, whenever this design phase sort of moved into the construction phase.
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure. So yeah, common security is as under the builder went in with the group package, right?
Because we were appreciative that, um, you know, small building costs had to be really lean. So. The way that an integrator can benefit from that and also be more competitive is to [00:27:00] put more packages underneath their services or their company. So, CommSecurity was successful with the PACE. CCTV, the access control, the intercom, the ICN and the smart building platform where we've been dedicated to KODE now for quite some time.
So along with the KODE team, uh, it wasn't their typical, um, sort of project deployment because they're so used to, you know, 50 buildings and 2 million square feet, so to speak, um, that we, you know, sort of rationalized our approach and really focused in on hard on what is the you know, the very black and white elements that needed to be delivered to comply with for the specification.
So we didn't balloon out price out with expectations or assumptions. Um, and we're quite clear in that response, um, to, to attend to every element within, within the spec. There was API integrations, there was a lot of, you know, traditional tritium, you know, ingesting of points, uh, the, the use of control. The use of being [00:28:00] able to do new API integrations with access control systems.
You know, so a lot of these systems that KODE are now communicating with haven't been used by KODE because it's the Australian market and we tend to use different products. Same functionality, but they just, they're different. So, uh, this was a new journey for KODE that we sort of come security, took them on.
And, um, and then we just started to cross crossover then the use cases with the advanced features of KODE's platform, because there's so many ways, you know, choose George 2000 rules for. Fault detection. You know, which ones would you like to do? So again, to keep the efficiency, we had to really use the journey with NDY and Harris Capital to really refine it.
So everyone maintains their efficiency and that's where all the costs get to. So we, we were engaged, you know, through the, through the competitive tender process. Um, the access control package was released a little [00:29:00] early, so we were aware we're on the job site. And then as it rolled into the network and to the smart building platform, I was able to get my team, you know, my secretary team into, into play.
And, um, you know, we had the relationships with the builder and then we started the design phase and always remember the first meeting when I introduced and said, I am the guy that's going to put your network in and get all of the data from all of the systems. And everyone's like, Okay, right. Not sure what that means.
So all right, let's go. And what's really, um, a real good thing that's come out of this project is that all of the trades may not be fully aware of what a smart building platform is and or does. But once they've got the understanding, they're all on board, and they're really, um, eager to, to learn, um, and, and follow the process, right?
Because if you don't have a set process for this, and it's not rigid, it can get all a bit messy and go sideways, and then that's when, you know, things can start turning a bit, um, a bit south [00:30:00] and, you know, You get inefficient. So, yeah, so that was sort of like the introduction to myself into this project team and, and then, you know, through the course as we've been going through, it's been quite a slog to get all of the systems on play, get all of the data into the system, execute on all of the integrations, and then at the right time, we bring in George and Matt, which was November last year.
Um, where we said, right, let's now have a look at what the KODE platform can do from a monitoring and a dashboard. And this is when we can start to really personalize. Based on what George is wanting to achieve in his operations. So there's a real lengthy process that you go through rather than just doing here's your five dashboard screens and here's your command buttons and here's your FDD rules.
You know, we take them on the journey and with the guidance of Matt, um, you know, overseeing technically the whole building side of it and George from the operation front, we can now customize the KODE front [00:31:00] end and interfaces. Even further than what it was originally proposed to do in the, in the submission.
And this is the level of service that, you know, I think that everybody in the Australian market is now expecting that we take George and the client as early as possible to bring them along for the ride as the platform's being built, rather than just handing the keys of the new car at the end of the show and then run away.
James Dice: What would be an example of this in terms of something on George's to do list that you guys are then customizing the KODE platform to make his to do list easier or something like that?
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure, sure. So, so level two and three are a, uh, customized co chair working space, George, I believe. Yeah. Right. So what we're doing with that is that we're, we're segment, so All of the building is coming into the KODE platform because level two and three is a co shared working space and it's a tenancy.
We're carving out the KODE, all of the systems within that tenancy and creating a subset of a [00:32:00] dashboard so you can effectively run and have an FM person or even George. Just monitor the status of the co shared working space. You know, that drives a lot of income, and you want to make sure that all of the systems are performing so that everybody's productive in that workspace.
So rather than George trying to filter through all of the different data sets and all the different dashboards and summary screens of this system or that system, we've personalised it down to just level 2 and 3 so he can be more responsive. He can look at his screen, a couple of seconds, he can see all systems are operating as per normal.
Thank you. Or, hey, I have an issue and it could be a quicker, you know, to get the faults fixed if there, if there was anything like that to occur.
George Garth: And for me, exactly right where the rubber hits the road there is that one, I don't want to only know about a problem when I hear a complaint. Um, and, and two, I don't want to have to have a complex, like, identifying an issue and issue resolution, all the [00:33:00] complexity can push back into the base build systems.
And so what I get is the simple, simple version of here's the problem, the simple and ideally hopeful, simple version of here's how to fix it.
Justin Anders: I think, um, when fault detection and, uh, EMSs, you know, start to really turn on on the dashboard screens, because you've got such a variety of how you can report those things.
That knowing exactly which incidents within the KODE platform are going to be the ones that George needs to be sent the SMS and the email rather than the things that can just, you know, trickle along in the FM team. So there's a real prioritization of only notify George when there's a catastrophe problem and let the building system handle the rest of the things by notifying the contractors for small and minor maintenance concerns.
So it's a real God there all things. Again, George's idea of what a category one alarm is a little different to what [00:34:00] Matt's is, which might be different to mine. So if you don't go through that, you know, journey together, then at the end of the day, if George isn't happy with, and it's not suited to his needs, then I wouldn't say it's a failure, but it, but it hasn't hit the mark exactly.
And that's, that's, I think what we have to really focus on when we're handing over Smart building platforms and integrations that are so flexible like KODE.
James Dice: Totally. And it feels a lot like I hear this a lot around, like needing to get the integrator in this case, you guys just involved as early as possible, but it's almost like we're also going back the other way too, which is Matt, you had this intent of the use cases that you guys put in the specs, those are not necessarily changing.
It sounds like it sounds like getting more specific and getting tailored to The actual human on the end. We start with user personas, which aren't real humans. And now we have our actual human that's showing up here to run this building. And so it's almost like then you're staying [00:35:00] involved and saying like, yeah, that meets the intent of the use case that I designed up front.
Matthew Taylor: Actually, I mean, is it. In the design phase, you may, if, you know, you're in a lucky position, have access to, you know, representatives from the operations team. You will never have access to the actual operations team for that building, right, when you're designing it. They come in typically at a later stage, and so having that method of feeding all the way back again and saying, right, we've done what we think is the right thing so far as we can, but now we know the actual people who are going to be on the ground doing it, their preferences.
You know, let's feed that back into the process. And so we'll always specify out, um, for contractor workshops, um, to be with the operations team for final setting of graphics. And we usually have, you know, spare allowances for extra workflows and automations to happen that we can kind of draw down on, uh, for the purposes of making those final tweaks, because, you know, there'd be nothing more frustrating than going through all this effort, getting to the, [00:36:00] To the end of the process and someone going, I just don't really like it that much.
I wish we'd done it slightly differently that way or slightly differently, you know, this way. Um, you know, for the sake of, of just finishing off the process. It's yeah, so worth it.
Justin Anders: I think there's another angle on it though, too. So you've got certainly right, you know, you write a theoretical. Specification, a set of words that can be interpreted to what a integrated platform or a set of systems needs to achieve the end that has to relate to a human or, or, or a team of humans in how they operate and use that platform.
And, and I've never seen one person get that right. 100 percent the operational use of how George would want to use the platform the way that it's written when you wrote it a year and a half prior. So it's mandatory that you've got to bring all of those people through the whole journey. The missing piece of the puzzle is the builder and the other trades that may or may not be familiar [00:37:00] with what data is, how things connect onto networks.
And, and the use of a smart building platform. So while there's the, those elements you've got to maintain because if the BMS guy or the lighting guy can't put their system together properly, then you can't, you know, you're, you're almost an indirect casualty that your smart building platform won't achieve what it's supposed to achieve.
So there's a whole piece of the puzzle where the trades are so critically important to not have to know what to do. But just to be able to listen and to, and to work with us to, to follow the process because we're trying to keep everyone efficient because we're all under time pressure. So we only want to do things once.
So, you know, and what was really happy around this job was that those trades were really willing to listen. They all put up their hand. I haven't really done this before. And we guided them through some like the BMS and the electrical team certainly didn't know what to do. Um, [00:38:00] and you know, that's just a little bit of finessing, you know, things like naming conventions and setting standards.
And you made the point getting the MSI or the MSI early onto a job. is becoming more critical because if they're setting the naming conventions and the standards of how systems have to be configured, then you don't want to be introduced into a project a year after it's all kicked off because Most of the trades are already on board, done their workshop drawings, and there's a whole lot of abortive works.
Matthew Taylor: It's a good point as well, and I actually remember the specification specifically called for the MSI to be the first trade engaged by the builder. Um, so that they can then review the other trade packages coming in to say actually what they're doing here is not going to meet the intent of this, right?
Because people are unfamiliar. Um, didn't quite happen that way, but you know, we, we still got an early engagement, right? And, and as you said, that journey is super important, um, because if it doesn't baked into the program, it's the builder's program at [00:39:00] an early stage, um, then things are going to go south pretty, pretty quickly, right?
You know, you need the time to be able to deliver this effectively.
Justin Anders: And that's the ability where I need my team to be. All prepped and understanding of the different, you know, the, there's the different way that we need to communicate with NDY in a real technical sense. There's a way that, you know, George, we need to communicate to George, and this is where KODE's helped me because, you know, KODE's done, you know, a thousand buildings plus, so they're so familiar with that process in that they had the collateral and the, and the information and the demos of the systems that they could then feed to me to make me efficient.
So while I may be the person and or the face, you know, the whole KODE team, you know, oversees both Kosovo and in Detroit. We're all supporting myself and my team in being able to get to, here's the right tool that we use. You know, we use the [00:40:00] MSI tool to, you know, load up all of the collateral of all of the building systems, do all of the analysis.
So, you know, I had a team over in Kosovo working, you know, 24 7, churning through all of the information to come back to ask the right questions. To then progress us down to the next path. And if I didn't have that, and nobody saw that team, right? That's, that's, you know, that's something that KODE and I work on to make everybody efficient.
So I don't want to bring 30 people into a meeting. So, you know, the KODE team, they're sitting, you know, you know, my silent partner, almost, you know, just really pulling through all of the info made my job a lot easier that I could attend the time to spend to all of the front facing, um, members that would need it.
They help effectively to get this done.
James Dice: Okay, cool. So we've walked through all of this. Let's talk about what's next. The building isn't fully handed over yet. So what do you guys need to do next?
Justin Anders: Uh, so from the KODE Labs deployment phase, we're onboarding the last number of systems now. [00:41:00] So API integrations are complete with the access control system and tested.
The lighting control system is still to bring in the 4, 000, you know, data points into the KODE platform and then to finalize the dashboards and the summary screens. And once that's done, we move then on to the advanced features of fault detection and functional test tool and finalize the EMS. Um, once those.
Dashboards are generated. Then my team go back and with the trades and do a whole data validation of the individual physical devices. And then we have a slow handover process, like a soft launch with George to get his team familiar with the platform and be part of that commissioning process with us.
And as we're then moving through, you know, to final completion of the platform, we bring Matt in to start, start his verification process and alignment and compliance. Um, and then that way we're all finishing at [00:42:00] the same time. George has a hundred percent confidence. We've got Matt's endorsement. We've got the results.
We've got the KODE. Um, platform live, his team's been using it and, and then we can then make a, just sit, probably just sit in the background and just keep a close eye on it with him, go through elements of training and, and then, and then frame up the support model through the DLP project and, and then, you know, phase and then, and then post that.
Because we, we don't, we won't ever want to leave this building with George, you know, always operate it and always be there to, to help advance because it will evolve. So we want to be part of that team and journey with him as, as he gets more familiar with KODE and wants to use more of the functionality that we've got, that's where, that's where the job's at.
And we have to get that all done in a, in about one to two months. So the rubber's really hitting the road. So it's, yeah, it's at the fun phase, yeah, the fun phase of the job where everyone's uh, running around trying to, trying to [00:43:00] get it, get it all done properly, but get it done fast as well because I know there's, there's a partial handover that's been in place.
James Dice: Well, we really appreciate you as the audience, uh, you guys taking the time to give us a like a before the finish line update, uh, on story here.
Justin Anders: We'll get there. We'll come back in a couple of months and, you know, hear from George of how, uh, how well it's settled in and operating and then, and then the benefits of, uh, you know, the real tangible benefits that it's, you know, put some dollar values to it.
Matthew Taylor: I think it's always fun as well with technology projects like this. When we're doing this with level of integration, you get to this stage because You know, for years, uh, trades have built up that kind of understanding of, uh, you know, what impacts other things. And so when everyone's climbing on top of each other a little bit at the final, the final stretch, they kind of know.
But when it comes to everything we're doing, they don't know yet. Um, it isn't, you know, it's not, we haven't gone through that process 10 times to have that kind of intrinsic knowledge. And so you can get quite a few instances of, [00:44:00] of unintended consequences. Um, yeah. Are you seeing any of those on site, Justin?
Justin Anders: Look, there's a few QR code readers that are being, you know, Install, install here, there, whoops, not there, here, there, please. You know, a few cameras here, there. So look, you know, we always adapt to that. You always have to, you know, think on your feet really quickly. I think the mobile app integration is a, is something that's coming through at the moment where, you know, it would have been, it's, um.
You know, sort of catching us out a little bit, but we're, we're working through it, you know, but that's, that's some of those things that you just got to think fast on your feet, turn around a solution, pull in the right team to get the right solution out and then go get it implemented. But yeah, there's a, oops, we ran the wrong cable to here.
We're now putting it over there. You know, you've got your processor drawing updates that you've got to try and catch, but. Hey, building wants to operate, right? So, all right, let's just, that's, that's, that's just construction.
James Dice: Yeah. Everybody, [00:45:00] everybody out there that's been on a construction project is just like shaking their head.
They're walking their dog and they're shaking their head right now, somewhere in the world. Yeah. It happens here in Australia too. Don't worry. Yep. Yep. Um, all right, cool. So let's, let's end this conversation, which I want to thank you guys again for giving us this, this inside peek. Um, let's end this with just if people were to, uh, if they're starting their construction process anywhere in the world, what would we tell them as far as the lessons learned that you guys have learned that you would tell them to implement?
Or takeaways of this conversation that we've already sort of had here? Um, Let's, let's just throw them out. So, uh, who wants to go first?
George Garth: I think understanding, understanding who's going to be using the building and how you're using it first, I suppose is a pretty, pretty obvious one to kick off with, but like we mentioned earlier, that understanding that, Not just understanding that, but then documenting and working backwards from that in terms of design and starting the process [00:46:00] early with, um, with the construction company.
So when you do get to this point, which is about to hand over, um, that you, you have, you have thought of all the things that you're going to need and those things are there for when you open the building. Getting on to it early, I suppose, to sum it up. Totally. What else?
Matthew Taylor: Uh, I would echo the same thing in terms of just having that strategy early days.
I'd summarize it as like bringing operational thinking into the construction process. Um, but I think a key thing for, for me from this is, is, you know, I think there was a conception, or I certainly had some conception that, um, small buildings, it's just going to be too hard to do this, right? Um, and this has been a kind of nexus for us in some ways, because we've, we've, it was the first real, like, small building of this size that we've done.
Um, but it's not the last, right? Since then, we've gone on to do several, several more, right? And I'm really hoping that we can continue this journey with small buildings, because, you know, You know, it's just a huge part of the market, and it'd be such a shame to leave [00:47:00] them out of this whole technology, um, expansion in, in the property space.
Justin Anders: From my side, it's, it's once, once a smart building platform is realized that can provide benefit and purpose, um, think of the functionality that a single platform like KODE can provide. Can, can offer. We don't need to go to three or four systems to achieve all of the features that KODE can do when being a SAS model service can make it really cost competitive, right?
That's, you know, packaging of services and so forth when budgets are really tight is a way that the, the integrators can, um, you know, Align it all with functionality and cost. So, you know, and, you know, helping commsecurity with KODE at the moment is, is really doing well in that, in that space of being able to provide that level of service and process, but with.
You know, the range of packages and features that the KODE platform can offer becomes attractive.
George Garth: I think you'd make it, to Matt's point, before you can make a case, it's just as [00:48:00] important to have something like KODE in the smart building systems for a smaller building because your ongoing operational budget is smaller.
The ability to sort of, you know, CapEx spending down the track if we're going to need it to change things or fix things or replace things like it's, it's not as big as you're going to have in a big building or a big network of buildings. So having smart systems that You know, improve the longevity of, of the, the mech, the mech and everything else in between and, and being able to run with a smaller team, I'd make that case for a small building just as much as a big one.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, especially considering, even though, you know, Gate is kind of one special building, if you did have four or five buildings under your management, all with different systems. You know, you've just gone from, you know, seven or eight systems you're, you're having to log into to potentially, you know, 20 or 30, because you've got not that much repetition between your buildings, you know, it's so much more scalable to be able to work to one platform
Justin Anders: and [00:49:00] training of staff as well, you know, so you can't, you can't shift stuff from one building to another if they don't know each of those individual systems.
So
James Dice: fascinating. Any others before we close off?
Matthew Taylor: Uh, the only other one for me would just be, uh, being ready for the journey on smaller buildings. So, you know, a lot of people think smaller buildings, smaller involvement. Um, but I guess the more you go down, um, the, the building size chain and you get into builders, you know, that just are not familiar and with trade contractors that are really not familiar, your, your kind of requirement to go on the journey and your workload associated with that actually starts to increase again.
So, you know, it's understanding that, um, to get this right, at least for now in the marketplace, you know, you have to start putting kind of more effort in as you get to the, to the smaller buildings.
James Dice: Yeah, I mean, depending on where you're at in the world right now, it doesn't matter the size of the contractor.
You're probably still going to need to have quite a bit of education [00:50:00]around here. We're all working together. We're pulling data from your system into this system, and we're closing down these silos and like that sort of education. It doesn't feel like Anywhere in the world gets to get skipped at this point from, from my vantage point, but maybe bigger buildings down by you guys, but you guys are, I think, ahead of most of the world in terms of, um, the, you know, the teamwork on a construction project for, for the bigger buildings, it seems like.
Justin Anders: Yeah, and the detail, I think that we go to, and I think that's one comment that KODE's made with us, is that the level of detail that we have to take every single element of the job for, you know, staying in tune with the specification by NDY and the user requirements by George, because we have such an early interaction, which then starts to set the tone of the expectations.
Um, we're lucky that we've got a platform like KODE that we can adapt to all of that and not be so rigid. Um, but the, the level of effort and, [00:51:00] and the, you know, you always get caught on that element of detail that you've missed. And with data, you know, that can be a dot or a dash or uppercase letter or something like that.
And, um, you know, we've seen it now on a, on a few examples through this job where, You know, that level of detail, uh, caught and we've had to rally to pull back around and get it off and running. So, you know, the, I think the, the open teamwork environment is, is, is critical to success. I think that is the number one message I take out of every project.
And, um, and it doesn't just work within the building and the trades. It's actually the consultant and the client that is part of that team. And if you can break down those silos and You know, everyone's got their role to play, but if you can break down those silos as early as possible and bring everybody along that journey, um, I think you'll always get a better outcome.
James Dice: Yeah. It's almost like people draw up the construction [00:52:00]process as these like serial phases, one after the next. And you're handing things over like a baton at the Olympics, but it's really like what you guys have done is kind of walk through the whole thing together. Um, Which is, it's pretty awesome. So thank you guys for coming on the show.
This has been awesome. Uh, we will check in. So this will get turned into a written case study. Uh, Brad on our team will follow up with you guys to get the final story in a few months before we turn it into the written version and, uh, everyone can find this, uh, on all of their, their, um, On our website, so you can find the written version in a few months.
Once, once this goes live, we'll, we'll turn it into a more formal case study. So thank you guys for coming on the show. Uh, really appreciate it. Nice job with the project.
Rosy Khalife: Okay, friends. Thank you for listening to this episode as we continue to grow our global community of change makers. We need your help for the next couple of months. We're challenging our listeners to share a link to their [00:53:00] favorite Nexus episode on LinkedIn with a short post about why you listen. It would really, really help us out.
Make sure to tag us in the post so we can see it. Have a good one.
"When the building was designed, the intention was to have the highest class technology. This ensures that when we open the building, me and my team can spend more time on proactively managing the building and understanding what’s working and what isn’t without being reactive to issues when they arise.”
—George Garth
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Episode 167 is a conversation with George Garth from Harris Capital, Justin Anders from COMMSecurity, and Matthew Taylor from NDY.
Episode 167 features George Garth from Harris Capital, Justin Anders from COMMSecurity, and Matthew Taylor from NDY and is our 12th episode in the Case Study series looking at real-life, large-scale deployments of smart building technologies. These are not marketing fluff stories, these are lessons from leaders that others can put into use in their smart buildings programs. This conversation explores Harris Capital's partnership with KODE Labs and the building of Gate 8. Enjoy!
Monologue from George (0:00)
Introduction (2:06)
Intro to George (2:46)
Vendor team (5:04)
Intro to Matthew (7:20)
Intro to Justin (8:20)
Building size (10:00)
Core Opportunities (17:40)
OT Systems (20:56)
Packaging (22:14)
Next Steps (40:53)
Lessons Learned (45:30)
Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tiger—licensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S612980-16073.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
George Garth: [00:00:00] Gate 8 is conceived, um, by the Harris family and Jeff Harris as a, as a legacy building to, um, with one purpose in mind, which is to supercharge philanthropy, social enterprise, and the next generation of Australia's great entrepreneurs. The building named Gate 8 is a nod to the world famous Melbourne Cricket Ground, which is next door to us.
And, uh, if you live in Melbourne, you'll often hear somebody say, I'll meet you at Gate 6, or I'll meet you at Gate 7. And, uh, the name Gate 8 is to say we'd like to welcome you. and meet you at Gate 8. Well, when the building is first designed, um, the intention was to have the highest class fit out as well as the highest class, uh, technology.
Uh, technology all the way through the building from the tenant side through to the base build systems. Making sure we've got the best quality technology from the base build side ensures that when, uh, we open the building, which we're very close to doing, we're That means my team can spend more time on proactively manage the building and [00:01:00] understanding, you know, what works and what doesn't work in the building without, um, being reactive and responding to issues when they arise.
That means my team can focus on ensuring the building experience is maximized rather than spending time on fixing problems day to day and having to employ a big team to run the site.
James Dice: Hey friends, if you like the Nexus podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community. There are three ways to do that. First, you can join the Nexus Pro Membership. It's our global community of smart building professionals. We have monthly events, paywall deep dive content, and a private chat room, and it's just 35 a month.
Second, you can upgrade from the Pro Membership to our courses offering. It's headlined by our flagship course, the Smart Building Strategist. And we're building a catalog of courses taught by world leading experts on each topic under the smart buildings umbrella. Third and finally, our marketplace is how we connect leading vendors with buyers looking for their solutions.
The links are [00:02:00] below in the show notes. And now let's go on to the podcast.
Welcome to the Nexus Podcast. This is the latest episode in our series diving into case studies of real life deployments of smart building technologies. And I emphasize real life because we're not here to create some sort of fluff story. We never do that. We're here to share lessons from a few leaders, uh, from a specific project.
Um, so that others can put these lessons to use, uh, in their smart buildings, programs, and projects. So today we have a story coming from Harris Capital, uh, a fund management and investment company located in Melbourne, Australia. And, um, I have George Garth here, who's general manager of property and operations at Harris Capital.
George, can you introduce yourself?
George Garth: Yeah, thanks James. Yeah. George Garth, as said, GM of property here at Harris Capital and, um, one of the key components of my role is delivering, uh, Gate 8 here in East Melbourne in Victoria, [00:03:00]Australia and, um, both bringing the building alive and then running it at a high level, uh, once we're open for the years to come.
Previously, I've worked with the Harris family in another business, which is a co working flex office space. So I spent a lot of time on the tenant side fit out, and so I've come to work with the Harris family and the GateAid team to deliver the full building to all the tenants. Harris related companies and partners.
James Dice: Absolutely. This building is sounds so cool. It reminds me of, um, this building in Denver here where I'm from called the Alliance Center, and it's only for sustainability focused, small, entrepreneurial companies, and it's also a very high performance building as well. So. Uh, it's almost like a sister building.
It's also small as well. It's a, it's only like 40, 000 square feet. But, um, for those of you that are listening to this, you want to check out a case study on that building. Uh, we'll put that in the show notes as well, uh, to, [00:04:00] to sort of show a little American, Australian, uh, yeah, synchronicity here.
George Garth: Absolutely. And look, to touch on one of the exciting things about this building too is it's, uh, it's a, it's a mix of, um, both commercial businesses and, uh, social enterprise businesses. Um, Gate 8 Level 4 is actually being donated to, uh, three not for profits, um, to re, uh, reposition themselves in, here at East Melbourne, uh, to run their operations out of here.
And so having that mix of commercial businesses and social enterprise is exciting for me and everyone in the building.
James Dice: All right, let's run through a couple of rapid fire questions so people understand sort of the context of this case study. Um, so first of all, people need to understand that this is a new construction building.
Um, it's solo in terms of there's not really a portfolio. So everything we're talking about today is just focused on this new construction project. Um, Next question is sort of like, who's your vendor team? Uh, we're going to bring on some, [00:05:00] some helpers here that are from the vendor team, but just give us an overview, um, of, of who you're working with to create this smart building.
George Garth: From my perspective, the first, um, one of the first key partners here was NDY. And, um, Matthew Taylor here to, um, design the building all the way from, you know, the, the fit out and in particular the, um, the technology that sits underneath it. Um, the tenant side network, which, you know, obviously Wi Fi network and those and AV and those sorts of things.
But then for the context of here today, super important is, um, you know, all the base build systems as well. So NDY is a key partner there. And then, of course, in terms of, in terms of the design, and then in terms of delivering it, um, Justin Anders from CommSecurity has led us there and has been a huge help.
Um, throughout that process and, uh, yeah, the key partner for us there too, in terms of delivering the design. And then, of course, the platform, which is, underpins everything we do here in [00:06:00] terms of delivering the basebuild system, is KODE, which, um, they've been great partners to work with. Their technology, uh, it's the first time I've dealt with it and, um, yeah, super excited to really get it out there.
Um, or not just launch, but flying.
James Dice: Totally. All right. And then, um, give us an idea of, um, as you mentioned, the, the building's almost complete. Um, when did you start this process and when do you see this sort of ending?
George Garth: So the actual, the actual property was purchased back in 2018 with plans to have it developed in a couple of years time.
But of course, COVID and the pandemic and lockdown slowed us all down. Um, and so it's really been probably here in Melbourne since mid 2022 that, um, we've been able to ramp the project back up. Yeah, in that, in that time, NDY has been engaged quite a bit as part of the design process and then I've worked with Justin now quite closely since late last year.
And, um, and we're, we're right there. So the building [00:07:00] is partially completed at the moment. Not, not quite all the way there. Um, but in the coming weeks, we'll, um, it'll all be pulled together and, and, uh, be fully operational.
James Dice: Okay. Let's bring in our friends then. So, so we have Matthew Taylor here from ND, NDY.
Matthew, can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about, um, for those people that don't know NDY, what do you guys do?
Matthew Taylor: I'm Matt Taylor from NDY. So NDY is an engineering consultancy in Australia, across Australia. Um, I am the smart buildings lead for the state of Victoria. Um, so we cover off everything technology really.
Uh, but that also includes things like control systems, ICT, AV, um, security systems, so yeah, quite a broad, broad team.
James Dice: Yeah. And one of the things we'll, we'll unpack a little bit is when you guys are doing this smart building stuff, usually it's, we're usually talking about bigger buildings, um, portfolios of bigger buildings usually.
And, and what's unique about this one is it's about, for those of you in the U S about a hundred thousand square feet. Uh, I [00:08:00] don't know what that is, square meters, but, uh, Less than that. Something like that. Yeah, 10, 000. Um, so it's a small building. Typically don't get this level of intelligence, uh, and something like this.
So we'll, we'll unpack like what that meant in the design and construction process. Um, next I want to bring in, uh, Justin Anders from CommSecurity. Justin, can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about, uh, what CommSecurity does?
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, hello. Justin Anders from CommSecurity and general manager.
Um, CommSecurity is an access control and technology integration business. Been around for five to six years and recently became Australia's certified channel partner with KODE Labs. I've been engaged with KODE Labs in my previous life as a smart building consultant and then shifted across to be a integrator as I saw a niche in the market where services of.
integrating, uh, smart building platforms, um, [00:09:00] can, can really use a boost. So, um, yeah, so CommSecurity is predominantly an access control company, but the synergies between that ICN and networks and smart building platforms, uh, really intertwined together and conform a really good package to clients, builders.
And when you have alignment with, you know, the whole delivery team, um, then you can get some really great outcomes.
James Dice: Totally. And do you guys, Justin, do you go to market as a master systems integrator or is that term?
Justin Anders: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. My master systems integrator or a network systems integrator.
Um, we provide all of those roles as part of our package for, for clients.
James Dice: All right. So let's talk about this project. Um, It sounds like it was a long time in the making, and we're getting close to the finish line here. Um, I think the way I want to start this is with, um, why, let's talk a little bit more about why we decided to diverge from the path of a typical 100, 000 square foot [00:10:00] office building in Australia.
Um, so Matt, maybe you can talk about What would that building typically look like? And George, kind of weigh in as well.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, I guess a building of this size tends to be, uh, done on lower budgets. It tends to be, you know, a very focused, um, construct. And then leave and figure out the operations later. It's a very classic kind of model of delivery, you know, smaller buildings.
Um, where there's very little thought given to the technology. It's just about, you know, getting services in there. And then that's the end of it. Right. And so, uh, this building just, it didn't need that, you know, it operates, uh, very much like a kind of owner operator type building and, and the, that operations piece, you know, thinking about it from the start, I guess for a building of this size is super rare, but it's been a really awesome thing to do.
James Dice: Yeah. And George, can you tell that story from your side? Like, like, when did you make that decision to, um, It sounds like if I'm, if I'm just reading between the lines, it sounds like you, you foresaw [00:11:00] the need to operate this building on lower, lower staff and lower labor than, you know, a typical building.
So did you kind of make that decision to say, okay, we're going to supplement our lack of staffing with, with a technology here?
George Garth: Yeah, absolutely. It's like, uh, Brad and I have, uh, worked together for some time and, and, Myself in particular, like I mentioned earlier, I've been on the tenant side quite a bit and dealt with building owners and, and seeing the, seeing the issues that come with, um, doing it, let's say, as per the status quo.
Um, so it's not only that, like being able to just manage a building better, um, but yes, once, once we're open and running, we want to be able to, Manage the building with fewer people, um, and, and be proactively manage the building, managing the building, um, rather than, rather than reactive, um, both, both as a building owner, um, but also just, uh, as Matt mentioned, a lot of our partner [00:12:00] businesses in here as well, so it is somewhat of an owner operator.
Um, and being a multi use building as well from events on the ground floor, a food and beverage offering on the top floor and commercial use through the middle. Um, it's not just sort of one set of problems that, you know, are likely to arise. It could be a full, full spectrum. So having, um, Having all the systems integrated into a system like KODE, meaning that we can, uh, be on top of everything as, uh, before it, before it becomes a real problem, um, rather than later on.
And so going into, yeah, going into the design, wanted to make sure that we had the technology to, to do that.
James Dice: Absolutely. What about the, um, sustainability or energy performance outcomes or goals that you were trying to hit as well? Is there anything there to cover?
George Garth: Yeah, absolutely. So as part of the fit out, um, um, We are achieving a six star green star rating and is that the right number, Justin?
Yep. [00:13:00] And then, uh, as part of the ongoing building, uh, uh, 5. 5 neighbors rating. Uh, so, so sustainability of a big part of both the fit out and the ongoing operations as well. And it all ties back to, again, uh, being able to manage the, uh, systems of the building as effectively as possible.
James Dice: Totally. And, um, I also wanted to pull in, you mentioned tenant experience or occupant experience earlier.
Can you talk about like what, it sounds like if again, I'm like, if I'm reflecting what you said back to you, you're trying to, this is a very mission oriented building and you're trying to foster a certain environment for the tenants. Can you talk about like what that is and how technology can sort of play into that?
George Garth: What, what this building is trying to achieve is to be. A legacy building for the Harris Group of Companies, um, as well as an icon in Melbourne. Um, so when, and I'll start from the aesthetic side because it sort of [00:14:00] goes backwards from there, so when you enter the lobby, it's a grand lobby, double story, there's a huge auditorium on one end, um, beautiful mezzanine, and then Going up to the top floor on level six called Jollymon House, which I'm in now.
Um, one of the rooms here is fitted out like a library, like you can see. Um, we've got this food and beverage offering and a terrace just behind me that overlooks the MCG. So, that is the nature of the building that, you know, Everyone wanted to, yeah, that we wanted to deliver here. And so being able to, and then matching that with everything else that sits underneath it is, uh, is super important.
I
Matthew Taylor: think, I think cohesive, uh, user experience was, was a huge part of that story. Um, so, you know, it was. In a lot of the discussions from early days, all the way through to, you know, when we started procuring the mobile app, you know, it was about what's that user experience for people, you know, whether it's through the smart lockers, whether it's through booking, you know, um, spaces [00:15:00] within, within the building, there's, you know, the gym, there's the auditorium.
How do you, how do you access those for, you know, different tenants? The food and beverage space, how do you order your food? You know, can you do that through, through QR codes, through the app? You know, having that whole technology, um, I guess, uh, experience thought through from the beginning was, was a, you know, a really key thing I guess for the building so that it doesn't matter who you are, whether you were just a visitor coming in, you got visit management systems, you know, or whether you are in, in the coworking space, or whether your company associated with Harris Capital, you know, in their space.
You're having that same, you know, experience in the building.
James Dice: Totally. And Matt, can you talk about how your design process, and I say your, I mean, you guys probably had many different designers engaged across NDY for all the different, you know, verticals in the building, but talk about your design process in terms of, um, how are you trying to take the.
Those goals that George talked about. So basically operations, sustainability, user experience, [00:16:00] tenant experience. How are you translating that into, um, design docs, basically? How, what, what was that process like? Um,
Matthew Taylor: so. I guess the focusing on the technology piece, um, we try to not talk about technology at the start.
So, um, we try to talk about challenges, opportunities, you know, the experience, try and understand how people are going to use the space first, and then we'll translate that into technology largely because people come with, you know, a set of preconceptions about what What building technology can do and we want to try and get those out of the first conversations and then start to To bring in technology to do the best things it can Um, but you end up with an enormous list which we did for this project.
I had a look back. I think we had like over 100 different opportunities Um spread across user groups or personas So then obviously you go about the process of whittling that down. Um, you know, we condensed it into something that was the right price point and the right, um, you know, set of [00:17:00]priorities for this building eventually.
Um, yeah, and then we joined, joined the rest of the fray doing the core of the design and, uh, you know, the, the whole journey of, I guess, Making sure that this is tightly, uh, weaved into all the components of design, which is always such a huge piece of delivering technology.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. I'm sure Justin then like, uh, helped out at that point, but I want to circle back to one thing you said around, let's just like really ground this in the core.
User personas and use cases that you prioritize. So all of the hundred plus, you know, opportunities you had, what are the core things, because I feel like it gets kind of hand wavy sometime when we talk about smart building platforms and all of that, I'd really love for you to just like some succinctly summarize.
What are we doing smart building stuff for and who?
Matthew Taylor: I guess key personas are going to be, um, firstly facilities management team, um, which in this case is, is George as one of his many hats. Um, and then, uh, we've got the users [00:18:00] of the building. So your typical users, the tenants. I'm using the building. Uh, visitors is another key persona for us.
Um, so there probably are three main personas, uh, for this building. Um, you know, we were also lucky enough to get, uh, some good input directly from, you know, Brad Harris, um, in part, in part of the process, which is, which is really nice to have. Uh, and get, you know, a really good eye into his vision for the building.
Um, and then it's just about how we improve those individual kind of persona experiences. So, you know, the visitor one is visitor management systems. It's about how people are welcomed into the building. Um, the facilities management one is, is really where we were driving through COVID labs, having that kind of single, um, picture of the entire building.
Uh, but it's also our. Kind of point of iteration for us integrating into the mobile app and sharing data with other systems. Um, but you know, Georgia, there's many hats. Um, getting that single snapshot of how the building is [00:19:00]now, um, combined with fault detection, diagnostics, you know, the analytic component, being able to actually tell them when things are actually wrong, um, is, you know, a key part of, of the strategy.
Just, just making life easier, right?
James Dice: Yeah. So George, this is an interesting one because of a lot of times we, on this podcast, I feel like we talk about, um, use cases for users like you, but they're thinking about many buildings. It seems like you're, you're just thinking about one building, but you're, you're doing more jobs than people typically do.
Can you talk about the different like hats you're wearing and sort of build on what Matt's talking about in terms of like how you're actually going to use the platform in your operational processes?
George Garth: Yeah, for sure. So in terms of, in terms of my role, um, yeah, it is rather than being multiple properties.
Uh, it is one person, but multiple, multiple roles. Uh, so from the concierge to the office managers to the, uh, level six venue management, that's, they're all part of my team. So that's all [00:20:00] experience. Um, from a tenant side IT. Uh, network status, um, position. That's, that's, that comes through to me as well. And then, and our IT partners.
Um, we've got an app and, uh, a bunch of different comms channels that sort of ultimately comes under my wing as well. But of course then, just the facilities management and the, the day to day mechanics of running the building too, that comes to me. So, what we want to be able to achieve is essentially, have, have a team of people that can focus, uh, focus mainly on the experience and running the, the way people use the building and have a, have a smaller team running that FM side of the building.
Um, so in order to do that, um, we'd lean on lean on technology.
James Dice: So, so Matt, can you talk about, um, all the different OT systems you wanted to integrate together, um, and sort of how [00:21:00] they were then feeding into these different use cases?
Matthew Taylor: Yeah sure so um, a lot of the usual ones, your BMS, lighting control, um, emergency lighting you know access control systems, CCTV, the ICT network itself which is ICN in Australia, and yeah really pulling everything together in the building into into a So, you know, we do have systems that are connected in, like, I think the lockers, uh, that are not necessarily there to be, you know, controlled and used through, through the platform, but having a central point of alarm management is, is super useful, right?
So you're not having to log into 10 systems to find out what's gone wrong. Um, so that's a huge, huge part of it, uh, and then that's very much the back of house component, the facilities management piece, and then a lot of the front of house user experience, you know, from comms, as in, you know, the pushing messaging through to building documents all the way through to building access.
Uh, is typically [00:22:00] through the mobile app.
James Dice: Alright, so Matt, you, you packaged it like basically all of these outcomes. You got use cases, you're trying to enable these different users like George to, you know, do their jobs better. How did you then package that all into something that you could take to market and figure out what vendors you're going to select, what they're going to do, what teams there are, like that kind of thing.
Tell us about that process. Okay. Thank you.
Matthew Taylor: So, um, fairly traditional process in that in that sense. We package everything up into specifications. Um, you know, we have all our technical requirements in there, but I think a key thing for us is making sure that the actual performance of the solution, you know, the outcomes that we're looking to target are part of that.
And then that went to market. So we went, um, as a, as a group to, to build on, they've bought the trades. Um, and a key thing for this solution was always going to be that ability to, to actually scale down, right? So lots of integrations, small scale building, how do you keep your price point from, uh, not ballooning comparative [00:23:00] to the, to the size of the construction project.
Um, and so I think going down a SaaS route was always going to be a favorable thing, uh, for, for a building like this. And so software as a service, um, and another benefit there being, you know, in the operations side where you don't have to, uh, manually look after, um, a set of technologies. You can, you can wrap that under a single procurement, um, you know, in the operations phase.
That's what led us into PACE. Yeah, the journey with, with KODE, I guess. Um, so, uh, they came through, uh, with the Builder team. Um, I actually moved to Australia from, uh, the UK, uh, from London about three and a half years ago. Um, and while KODE, KODE is quite new in the Australian market in relative terms, um, we've been using them in the UK.
And so, yeah, we had that familiarity, um, knew the product, you know, reasonably well. Um, and yeah, it was a good, a good fit for, for everything that the building needed.
James Dice: Totally. And can you talk about the selection process? That's one of the things that our team has [00:24:00] been really nerding out on recently. As we've built, we keep building and building our, our marketplace product, but, um, the ability for you as the consultant to view all of these different options.
Um, you know, KODE's not the only one that does stuff like this. So how did you select and decide that KODE is the best partner for Harris?
Matthew Taylor: It's a good question. Um, and different. Approach is going to market, you know, allow us different levels of control. Uh, in this case, um, you know, it was everything was set on the builder, right?
So in theory, we had very little control over, over a specific selection. Um, but you know, especially working on a building of this size, you've got builders that don't even typically have a services manager, right? Let alone have someone who understands technology. They really wrapped us into that process to help them, you know, to say, what, what is the best thing that we pick here?
Can we use this product? Is this the right thing? Um, and so we kind of, I guess helped, helped the [00:25:00] builder through that process. And, and, you know, we, we ended up on, on it largely as the right price point, I think, uh, and meeting all the requirements that we had in our specification, because say before, you know, the, the trick with these buildings is always going to be, how do you scale down appropriately?
And, and quite, quite a hard thing to do, I think, for, for many businesses.
James Dice: Yeah. And one of the fascinating things here from my standpoint, just learning about this project for the first time is, um, you have a bunch of diverse requirements. So we've talked about integrating all of these into one single pane of glass.
We've talked about FDD. We've talked about providing data to a user experience application. All of those things may be in the, in the old days, like you would, might require them to happen across different platforms, but it seems like one value here is you could select one software vendor. They're checking all of the boxes.
It feels like that you, that you said when you laid out your use cases, is that one of the, Things that happened here.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I [00:26:00] mean, it's, we're always piecing together more than one technology, I think, in a, in a, in a smart building project, but the integration platform is such a key, key part of it.
Right. And not just for the facilities team, but also from a, from a technology architecture perspective for, you know, allowing us to integrate vastly different sets of data into, into other systems. Right. Um, and so it's a real key kind of linchpin and, and. In the way the building is going to function.
James Dice: Totally. Okay. So Justin, you guys came in with the builder then as a, you know, integrator and reseller of the software. Um, tell, tell us about how you then got integrated into the project. Um, whenever this design phase sort of moved into the construction phase.
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure. So yeah, common security is as under the builder went in with the group package, right?
Because we were appreciative that, um, you know, small building costs had to be really lean. So. The way that an integrator can benefit from that and also be more competitive is to [00:27:00] put more packages underneath their services or their company. So, CommSecurity was successful with the PACE. CCTV, the access control, the intercom, the ICN and the smart building platform where we've been dedicated to KODE now for quite some time.
So along with the KODE team, uh, it wasn't their typical, um, sort of project deployment because they're so used to, you know, 50 buildings and 2 million square feet, so to speak, um, that we, you know, sort of rationalized our approach and really focused in on hard on what is the you know, the very black and white elements that needed to be delivered to comply with for the specification.
So we didn't balloon out price out with expectations or assumptions. Um, and we're quite clear in that response, um, to, to attend to every element within, within the spec. There was API integrations, there was a lot of, you know, traditional tritium, you know, ingesting of points, uh, the, the use of control. The use of being [00:28:00] able to do new API integrations with access control systems.
You know, so a lot of these systems that KODE are now communicating with haven't been used by KODE because it's the Australian market and we tend to use different products. Same functionality, but they just, they're different. So, uh, this was a new journey for KODE that we sort of come security, took them on.
And, um, and then we just started to cross crossover then the use cases with the advanced features of KODE's platform, because there's so many ways, you know, choose George 2000 rules for. Fault detection. You know, which ones would you like to do? So again, to keep the efficiency, we had to really use the journey with NDY and Harris Capital to really refine it.
So everyone maintains their efficiency and that's where all the costs get to. So we, we were engaged, you know, through the, through the competitive tender process. Um, the access control package was released a little [00:29:00] early, so we were aware we're on the job site. And then as it rolled into the network and to the smart building platform, I was able to get my team, you know, my secretary team into, into play.
And, um, you know, we had the relationships with the builder and then we started the design phase and always remember the first meeting when I introduced and said, I am the guy that's going to put your network in and get all of the data from all of the systems. And everyone's like, Okay, right. Not sure what that means.
So all right, let's go. And what's really, um, a real good thing that's come out of this project is that all of the trades may not be fully aware of what a smart building platform is and or does. But once they've got the understanding, they're all on board, and they're really, um, eager to, to learn, um, and, and follow the process, right?
Because if you don't have a set process for this, and it's not rigid, it can get all a bit messy and go sideways, and then that's when, you know, things can start turning a bit, um, a bit south [00:30:00] and, you know, You get inefficient. So, yeah, so that was sort of like the introduction to myself into this project team and, and then, you know, through the course as we've been going through, it's been quite a slog to get all of the systems on play, get all of the data into the system, execute on all of the integrations, and then at the right time, we bring in George and Matt, which was November last year.
Um, where we said, right, let's now have a look at what the KODE platform can do from a monitoring and a dashboard. And this is when we can start to really personalize. Based on what George is wanting to achieve in his operations. So there's a real lengthy process that you go through rather than just doing here's your five dashboard screens and here's your command buttons and here's your FDD rules.
You know, we take them on the journey and with the guidance of Matt, um, you know, overseeing technically the whole building side of it and George from the operation front, we can now customize the KODE front [00:31:00] end and interfaces. Even further than what it was originally proposed to do in the, in the submission.
And this is the level of service that, you know, I think that everybody in the Australian market is now expecting that we take George and the client as early as possible to bring them along for the ride as the platform's being built, rather than just handing the keys of the new car at the end of the show and then run away.
James Dice: What would be an example of this in terms of something on George's to do list that you guys are then customizing the KODE platform to make his to do list easier or something like that?
Justin Anders: Yeah, sure, sure. So, so level two and three are a, uh, customized co chair working space, George, I believe. Yeah. Right. So what we're doing with that is that we're, we're segment, so All of the building is coming into the KODE platform because level two and three is a co shared working space and it's a tenancy.
We're carving out the KODE, all of the systems within that tenancy and creating a subset of a [00:32:00] dashboard so you can effectively run and have an FM person or even George. Just monitor the status of the co shared working space. You know, that drives a lot of income, and you want to make sure that all of the systems are performing so that everybody's productive in that workspace.
So rather than George trying to filter through all of the different data sets and all the different dashboards and summary screens of this system or that system, we've personalised it down to just level 2 and 3 so he can be more responsive. He can look at his screen, a couple of seconds, he can see all systems are operating as per normal.
Thank you. Or, hey, I have an issue and it could be a quicker, you know, to get the faults fixed if there, if there was anything like that to occur.
George Garth: And for me, exactly right where the rubber hits the road there is that one, I don't want to only know about a problem when I hear a complaint. Um, and, and two, I don't want to have to have a complex, like, identifying an issue and issue resolution, all the [00:33:00] complexity can push back into the base build systems.
And so what I get is the simple, simple version of here's the problem, the simple and ideally hopeful, simple version of here's how to fix it.
Justin Anders: I think, um, when fault detection and, uh, EMSs, you know, start to really turn on on the dashboard screens, because you've got such a variety of how you can report those things.
That knowing exactly which incidents within the KODE platform are going to be the ones that George needs to be sent the SMS and the email rather than the things that can just, you know, trickle along in the FM team. So there's a real prioritization of only notify George when there's a catastrophe problem and let the building system handle the rest of the things by notifying the contractors for small and minor maintenance concerns.
So it's a real God there all things. Again, George's idea of what a category one alarm is a little different to what [00:34:00] Matt's is, which might be different to mine. So if you don't go through that, you know, journey together, then at the end of the day, if George isn't happy with, and it's not suited to his needs, then I wouldn't say it's a failure, but it, but it hasn't hit the mark exactly.
And that's, that's, I think what we have to really focus on when we're handing over Smart building platforms and integrations that are so flexible like KODE.
James Dice: Totally. And it feels a lot like I hear this a lot around, like needing to get the integrator in this case, you guys just involved as early as possible, but it's almost like we're also going back the other way too, which is Matt, you had this intent of the use cases that you guys put in the specs, those are not necessarily changing.
It sounds like it sounds like getting more specific and getting tailored to The actual human on the end. We start with user personas, which aren't real humans. And now we have our actual human that's showing up here to run this building. And so it's almost like then you're staying [00:35:00] involved and saying like, yeah, that meets the intent of the use case that I designed up front.
Matthew Taylor: Actually, I mean, is it. In the design phase, you may, if, you know, you're in a lucky position, have access to, you know, representatives from the operations team. You will never have access to the actual operations team for that building, right, when you're designing it. They come in typically at a later stage, and so having that method of feeding all the way back again and saying, right, we've done what we think is the right thing so far as we can, but now we know the actual people who are going to be on the ground doing it, their preferences.
You know, let's feed that back into the process. And so we'll always specify out, um, for contractor workshops, um, to be with the operations team for final setting of graphics. And we usually have, you know, spare allowances for extra workflows and automations to happen that we can kind of draw down on, uh, for the purposes of making those final tweaks, because, you know, there'd be nothing more frustrating than going through all this effort, getting to the, [00:36:00] To the end of the process and someone going, I just don't really like it that much.
I wish we'd done it slightly differently that way or slightly differently, you know, this way. Um, you know, for the sake of, of just finishing off the process. It's yeah, so worth it.
Justin Anders: I think there's another angle on it though, too. So you've got certainly right, you know, you write a theoretical. Specification, a set of words that can be interpreted to what a integrated platform or a set of systems needs to achieve the end that has to relate to a human or, or, or a team of humans in how they operate and use that platform.
And, and I've never seen one person get that right. 100 percent the operational use of how George would want to use the platform the way that it's written when you wrote it a year and a half prior. So it's mandatory that you've got to bring all of those people through the whole journey. The missing piece of the puzzle is the builder and the other trades that may or may not be familiar [00:37:00] with what data is, how things connect onto networks.
And, and the use of a smart building platform. So while there's the, those elements you've got to maintain because if the BMS guy or the lighting guy can't put their system together properly, then you can't, you know, you're, you're almost an indirect casualty that your smart building platform won't achieve what it's supposed to achieve.
So there's a whole piece of the puzzle where the trades are so critically important to not have to know what to do. But just to be able to listen and to, and to work with us to, to follow the process because we're trying to keep everyone efficient because we're all under time pressure. So we only want to do things once.
So, you know, and what was really happy around this job was that those trades were really willing to listen. They all put up their hand. I haven't really done this before. And we guided them through some like the BMS and the electrical team certainly didn't know what to do. Um, [00:38:00] and you know, that's just a little bit of finessing, you know, things like naming conventions and setting standards.
And you made the point getting the MSI or the MSI early onto a job. is becoming more critical because if they're setting the naming conventions and the standards of how systems have to be configured, then you don't want to be introduced into a project a year after it's all kicked off because Most of the trades are already on board, done their workshop drawings, and there's a whole lot of abortive works.
Matthew Taylor: It's a good point as well, and I actually remember the specification specifically called for the MSI to be the first trade engaged by the builder. Um, so that they can then review the other trade packages coming in to say actually what they're doing here is not going to meet the intent of this, right?
Because people are unfamiliar. Um, didn't quite happen that way, but you know, we, we still got an early engagement, right? And, and as you said, that journey is super important, um, because if it doesn't baked into the program, it's the builder's program at [00:39:00] an early stage, um, then things are going to go south pretty, pretty quickly, right?
You know, you need the time to be able to deliver this effectively.
Justin Anders: And that's the ability where I need my team to be. All prepped and understanding of the different, you know, the, there's the different way that we need to communicate with NDY in a real technical sense. There's a way that, you know, George, we need to communicate to George, and this is where KODE's helped me because, you know, KODE's done, you know, a thousand buildings plus, so they're so familiar with that process in that they had the collateral and the, and the information and the demos of the systems that they could then feed to me to make me efficient.
So while I may be the person and or the face, you know, the whole KODE team, you know, oversees both Kosovo and in Detroit. We're all supporting myself and my team in being able to get to, here's the right tool that we use. You know, we use the [00:40:00] MSI tool to, you know, load up all of the collateral of all of the building systems, do all of the analysis.
So, you know, I had a team over in Kosovo working, you know, 24 7, churning through all of the information to come back to ask the right questions. To then progress us down to the next path. And if I didn't have that, and nobody saw that team, right? That's, that's, you know, that's something that KODE and I work on to make everybody efficient.
So I don't want to bring 30 people into a meeting. So, you know, the KODE team, they're sitting, you know, you know, my silent partner, almost, you know, just really pulling through all of the info made my job a lot easier that I could attend the time to spend to all of the front facing, um, members that would need it.
They help effectively to get this done.
James Dice: Okay, cool. So we've walked through all of this. Let's talk about what's next. The building isn't fully handed over yet. So what do you guys need to do next?
Justin Anders: Uh, so from the KODE Labs deployment phase, we're onboarding the last number of systems now. [00:41:00] So API integrations are complete with the access control system and tested.
The lighting control system is still to bring in the 4, 000, you know, data points into the KODE platform and then to finalize the dashboards and the summary screens. And once that's done, we move then on to the advanced features of fault detection and functional test tool and finalize the EMS. Um, once those.
Dashboards are generated. Then my team go back and with the trades and do a whole data validation of the individual physical devices. And then we have a slow handover process, like a soft launch with George to get his team familiar with the platform and be part of that commissioning process with us.
And as we're then moving through, you know, to final completion of the platform, we bring Matt in to start, start his verification process and alignment and compliance. Um, and then that way we're all finishing at [00:42:00] the same time. George has a hundred percent confidence. We've got Matt's endorsement. We've got the results.
We've got the KODE. Um, platform live, his team's been using it and, and then we can then make a, just sit, probably just sit in the background and just keep a close eye on it with him, go through elements of training and, and then, and then frame up the support model through the DLP project and, and then, you know, phase and then, and then post that.
Because we, we don't, we won't ever want to leave this building with George, you know, always operate it and always be there to, to help advance because it will evolve. So we want to be part of that team and journey with him as, as he gets more familiar with KODE and wants to use more of the functionality that we've got, that's where, that's where the job's at.
And we have to get that all done in a, in about one to two months. So the rubber's really hitting the road. So it's, yeah, it's at the fun phase, yeah, the fun phase of the job where everyone's uh, running around trying to, trying to [00:43:00] get it, get it all done properly, but get it done fast as well because I know there's, there's a partial handover that's been in place.
James Dice: Well, we really appreciate you as the audience, uh, you guys taking the time to give us a like a before the finish line update, uh, on story here.
Justin Anders: We'll get there. We'll come back in a couple of months and, you know, hear from George of how, uh, how well it's settled in and operating and then, and then the benefits of, uh, you know, the real tangible benefits that it's, you know, put some dollar values to it.
Matthew Taylor: I think it's always fun as well with technology projects like this. When we're doing this with level of integration, you get to this stage because You know, for years, uh, trades have built up that kind of understanding of, uh, you know, what impacts other things. And so when everyone's climbing on top of each other a little bit at the final, the final stretch, they kind of know.
But when it comes to everything we're doing, they don't know yet. Um, it isn't, you know, it's not, we haven't gone through that process 10 times to have that kind of intrinsic knowledge. And so you can get quite a few instances of, [00:44:00] of unintended consequences. Um, yeah. Are you seeing any of those on site, Justin?
Justin Anders: Look, there's a few QR code readers that are being, you know, Install, install here, there, whoops, not there, here, there, please. You know, a few cameras here, there. So look, you know, we always adapt to that. You always have to, you know, think on your feet really quickly. I think the mobile app integration is a, is something that's coming through at the moment where, you know, it would have been, it's, um.
You know, sort of catching us out a little bit, but we're, we're working through it, you know, but that's, that's some of those things that you just got to think fast on your feet, turn around a solution, pull in the right team to get the right solution out and then go get it implemented. But yeah, there's a, oops, we ran the wrong cable to here.
We're now putting it over there. You know, you've got your processor drawing updates that you've got to try and catch, but. Hey, building wants to operate, right? So, all right, let's just, that's, that's, that's just construction.
James Dice: Yeah. Everybody, [00:45:00] everybody out there that's been on a construction project is just like shaking their head.
They're walking their dog and they're shaking their head right now, somewhere in the world. Yeah. It happens here in Australia too. Don't worry. Yep. Yep. Um, all right, cool. So let's, let's end this conversation, which I want to thank you guys again for giving us this, this inside peek. Um, let's end this with just if people were to, uh, if they're starting their construction process anywhere in the world, what would we tell them as far as the lessons learned that you guys have learned that you would tell them to implement?
Or takeaways of this conversation that we've already sort of had here? Um, Let's, let's just throw them out. So, uh, who wants to go first?
George Garth: I think understanding, understanding who's going to be using the building and how you're using it first, I suppose is a pretty, pretty obvious one to kick off with, but like we mentioned earlier, that understanding that, Not just understanding that, but then documenting and working backwards from that in terms of design and starting the process [00:46:00] early with, um, with the construction company.
So when you do get to this point, which is about to hand over, um, that you, you have, you have thought of all the things that you're going to need and those things are there for when you open the building. Getting on to it early, I suppose, to sum it up. Totally. What else?
Matthew Taylor: Uh, I would echo the same thing in terms of just having that strategy early days.
I'd summarize it as like bringing operational thinking into the construction process. Um, but I think a key thing for, for me from this is, is, you know, I think there was a conception, or I certainly had some conception that, um, small buildings, it's just going to be too hard to do this, right? Um, and this has been a kind of nexus for us in some ways, because we've, we've, it was the first real, like, small building of this size that we've done.
Um, but it's not the last, right? Since then, we've gone on to do several, several more, right? And I'm really hoping that we can continue this journey with small buildings, because, you know, You know, it's just a huge part of the market, and it'd be such a shame to leave [00:47:00] them out of this whole technology, um, expansion in, in the property space.
Justin Anders: From my side, it's, it's once, once a smart building platform is realized that can provide benefit and purpose, um, think of the functionality that a single platform like KODE can provide. Can, can offer. We don't need to go to three or four systems to achieve all of the features that KODE can do when being a SAS model service can make it really cost competitive, right?
That's, you know, packaging of services and so forth when budgets are really tight is a way that the, the integrators can, um, you know, Align it all with functionality and cost. So, you know, and, you know, helping commsecurity with KODE at the moment is, is really doing well in that, in that space of being able to provide that level of service and process, but with.
You know, the range of packages and features that the KODE platform can offer becomes attractive.
George Garth: I think you'd make it, to Matt's point, before you can make a case, it's just as [00:48:00] important to have something like KODE in the smart building systems for a smaller building because your ongoing operational budget is smaller.
The ability to sort of, you know, CapEx spending down the track if we're going to need it to change things or fix things or replace things like it's, it's not as big as you're going to have in a big building or a big network of buildings. So having smart systems that You know, improve the longevity of, of the, the mech, the mech and everything else in between and, and being able to run with a smaller team, I'd make that case for a small building just as much as a big one.
Matthew Taylor: Yeah, especially considering, even though, you know, Gate is kind of one special building, if you did have four or five buildings under your management, all with different systems. You know, you've just gone from, you know, seven or eight systems you're, you're having to log into to potentially, you know, 20 or 30, because you've got not that much repetition between your buildings, you know, it's so much more scalable to be able to work to one platform
Justin Anders: and [00:49:00] training of staff as well, you know, so you can't, you can't shift stuff from one building to another if they don't know each of those individual systems.
So
James Dice: fascinating. Any others before we close off?
Matthew Taylor: Uh, the only other one for me would just be, uh, being ready for the journey on smaller buildings. So, you know, a lot of people think smaller buildings, smaller involvement. Um, but I guess the more you go down, um, the, the building size chain and you get into builders, you know, that just are not familiar and with trade contractors that are really not familiar, your, your kind of requirement to go on the journey and your workload associated with that actually starts to increase again.
So, you know, it's understanding that, um, to get this right, at least for now in the marketplace, you know, you have to start putting kind of more effort in as you get to the, to the smaller buildings.
James Dice: Yeah, I mean, depending on where you're at in the world right now, it doesn't matter the size of the contractor.
You're probably still going to need to have quite a bit of education [00:50:00]around here. We're all working together. We're pulling data from your system into this system, and we're closing down these silos and like that sort of education. It doesn't feel like Anywhere in the world gets to get skipped at this point from, from my vantage point, but maybe bigger buildings down by you guys, but you guys are, I think, ahead of most of the world in terms of, um, the, you know, the teamwork on a construction project for, for the bigger buildings, it seems like.
Justin Anders: Yeah, and the detail, I think that we go to, and I think that's one comment that KODE's made with us, is that the level of detail that we have to take every single element of the job for, you know, staying in tune with the specification by NDY and the user requirements by George, because we have such an early interaction, which then starts to set the tone of the expectations.
Um, we're lucky that we've got a platform like KODE that we can adapt to all of that and not be so rigid. Um, but the, the level of effort and, [00:51:00] and the, you know, you always get caught on that element of detail that you've missed. And with data, you know, that can be a dot or a dash or uppercase letter or something like that.
And, um, you know, we've seen it now on a, on a few examples through this job where, You know, that level of detail, uh, caught and we've had to rally to pull back around and get it off and running. So, you know, the, I think the, the open teamwork environment is, is, is critical to success. I think that is the number one message I take out of every project.
And, um, and it doesn't just work within the building and the trades. It's actually the consultant and the client that is part of that team. And if you can break down those silos and You know, everyone's got their role to play, but if you can break down those silos as early as possible and bring everybody along that journey, um, I think you'll always get a better outcome.
James Dice: Yeah. It's almost like people draw up the construction [00:52:00]process as these like serial phases, one after the next. And you're handing things over like a baton at the Olympics, but it's really like what you guys have done is kind of walk through the whole thing together. Um, Which is, it's pretty awesome. So thank you guys for coming on the show.
This has been awesome. Uh, we will check in. So this will get turned into a written case study. Uh, Brad on our team will follow up with you guys to get the final story in a few months before we turn it into the written version and, uh, everyone can find this, uh, on all of their, their, um, On our website, so you can find the written version in a few months.
Once, once this goes live, we'll, we'll turn it into a more formal case study. So thank you guys for coming on the show. Uh, really appreciate it. Nice job with the project.
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