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"Making it so that there are streamline workflows and technology behind getting our data into systems is critical to supporting our overall sustainability goals. Using software to help us with energy management has helped us to focus more on broader goals and actions more so than just data analysis.â
âLauren Trapp
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Episode 170 is a conversation with Lauren Trapp and Brandon Money from AFL.
Episode 170 features Lauren Trapp and Brandon Money from AFL and is our 14th episode in the Case Study series looking at real-life, large-scale deployments of smart building technologies. These are not marketing fluff stories, these are lessons from leaders that others can put into use in their smart buildings programs. This conversation explores AFLâs use of technology to modernize and optimize its energy management processes and to reduce energy consumption across their facilities. Enjoy!
Monologue from Lauren (0:00)
Introduction (1:45)
Introduction to Lauren (2:19)
Introduction to Brandon (2:48)
Types of buildings in the portfolio (3:57)
Project overview (5:47)
Tech stack (10:00)
Project types (22:17)
Future of the program (27:50)
Lessons learned (35:02)
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Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S657598-16073.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
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Lauren Trapp: [00:00:00] Automation of our data and making it so that there are streamlined workflows and technology behind getting our data into systems is really critical to supporting our overall sustainability goals and It really just helps with, uh, workload, um, helps with gathering insights that would otherwise take hours and a lot of time, a lot of focus to identify and still relying on human, uh, ability and capability to find those.
And so by using the software to help us with energy management, it's really helped us to focus more on our broader sustainability goals and actual action. And, more so than just a mundane data collection and data analysis.
James Dice: Hey friends, if you liked the Nexus [00:01:00] podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community. There are three ways to do that. First, you can join the Nexus Pro Membership. It's our global community of smart building professionals. We have monthly events, paywall deep dive content, and a private chat room, and it's just 35 a month.
Second, you can upgrade from the Pro Membership to our courses offering. It's headlined by our flagship course, the Smart Building Strategist. And we're building a catalog of courses taught by world leading experts on each topic under the Smart Buildings umbrella. Third and finally, our marketplace is how we connect leading vendors with buyers looking for their solutions.
The links are below in the show notes. And now let's go on to the podcast.
Welcome to the Nexus podcast. This is the latest episode in our series, diving into case studies of real life, large scale deployments of smart buildings technologies. And we're not here to create a marketing fluff story. We're here to like basically share real lessons from leaders that others can put to use in their [00:02:00] programs.
So today we have a story coming from AFL, a global leader in fiber optics solutions. AFL has used technology to modernize and optimize its energy management processes and significantly reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions across their facilities. So I have Brandon and Lauren here. Why don't you guys introduce yourselves?
Let's start with you, Lauren.
Lauren Trapp: I'm Lauren Trapp and I am the Sustainability Manager at AFL. And I've been here for almost going on three years now. I've kicked off our, that was our first sustainability hire. So helped to kick off our sustainability program. So really proud of the work that we've put in, uh, with our team, Brandon and everyone else, uh, to, to get to where we are today and still a long road to go.
James Dice: Awesome. How about you, Brandon?
Brandon Money: I'm Brandon Money, Global Energy Manager for AFL and Lauren's partner in crime. Really focus on all things scope one and scope two emissions related for AFL.
James Dice: And [00:03:00] Brandon, I feel like there's some sort of joke here around you saving AFL money and your last name being money.
Does that get used quite a bit?
Brandon Money: Yeah you, you Typically you get jokes from time to time with a last name, like money, but I do tell people that as an energy manager one of my jobs is to justify my pay. So, if I'm not at least finding my salary and savings each year, then I Maybe we should hire someone else that, that can do that.
James Dice: Makes perfect sense.
Lauren Trapp: He, he helps, he helps with mine too, justifying my salary as well.
James Dice: Yeah. Well, you guys have quite a bit of, um, savings to talk about in this, um, as a, as a preview for the listeners here. Um, so for people that don't know AFL, can you guys talk about, um, What is, what is fiber optic solutions and just talk about, um, how that, you know, relates to the, the type of buildings in your portfolio, how many buildings, what's the portfolio look like to give [00:04:00] people a sense of what type of buildings we're talking about.
Brandon Money: When you, when you talk about fiber optics for AFL, uh, multiple things going on there, we, we manufacture fiber optic cable. Um, do a lot of work for things like, uh, data centers with the data center boom, currently ongoing, uh, also have aluminum conductor accessories business where we do some, some metal pouring and forming, um, and then a, a large services, uh, Organization where we install the components that we make.
A lot of times you should just think of like NFL stadiums, like the current Mercedes Benz, Super Bowl upgrades, uh, antenna systems and wifi. That's our services, uh, division. We operate about 13 ish manufacturing sites and another 50 some odd, uh, warehouses, offices, services, uh, locations. Total operational square footage.
We're looking around 3 million square feet. [00:05:00]
James Dice: Got it. So when you talk about scope one and two emissions, you're talking about, um, and your manufacturing sites, electric and gas usage mostly.
Brandon Money: Yeah. When we, we do our footprint, we look at operational control. So anywhere where we're manufacturing or it could just be storing, uh, warehousing components, and then that encompasses also like our offices, sales offices.
Locations like that.
James Dice: Got it. And, um, we're, we're going to talk about a case study today and in which you guys deployed Energy Caps software. Can you talk about when did that project start? Just give us some high level results, um, successes on that project before we sort of dig into the deeper story.
Brandon Money: Yeah, of course.
We, we started looking. Say back in 2022 timeframe at, uh, softwares that could help. Well, I say 2022, we did a lot of manual data entry. Um, [00:06:00] I call it energy caps, biggest competitor, uh, Microsoft Excel, getting a lot of data in there. A lot of manual data collection from random accounts, payable folks, or EHS representatives.
It was. It was a hurdle to, to get all of just the basic data that we required to perform a greenhouse gas footprint. So, uh, started looking at a few softwares on the market, uh, to really, to start with Scope 1 and Scope 2. Your, your fuel usages, your electricity consumption, and then hopefully from there transition to Our, our largest source of emissions, which is our scope three emissions.
So in that search for software, we, we know energy cap or, or had heard through the grapevine that they were the sort of end all be all for all things, utility management, um, web capture services or bill capture [00:07:00] services to connect directly to utility providers, uh, through, you know, data collection, auditing.
And then ultimately, uh, with their carbon hub solution, calculating the greenhouse gas emissions associated with that raw utility data. So, our search really began on trying to ease the pain that was hours and hours spent on data collection and structuring that data. So, we've had that, or been with EnergyCaps, uh, we started mid 2023, uh, couple, couple weeks or months of project management integration, getting, uh, all in to the software was complete by the end of, uh, 2023.
James Dice: Got it. And, um, Lauren, I want to ask you about the Bigger Picture Sustainability Program. Do you guys have a carbon emissions target that you're, um, sort of out to measure against and track progress [00:08:00]towards, um, and where does this sort of, um, funnel up to the C Suite and their, you know, their business goals?
Lauren Trapp: Yeah, so we do, um, we have committed to science based targets initiative. So we have, uh, reduction goals in our scope 1 and 2 emissions. So for electricity purchase, um, as well as our natural gas, our gasoline, diesel. Uh, so we're looking at about 50, 5 0 percent reduction, uh, in 10 years. And then also we have, um, a scope 3 goal.
To reduce absolute emissions by 30 percent over that same time frame. Uh, so scope 3 being our value chain emissions and, um, so for AFL, these goals are. Aligning with our, you know, like you said, our C suite and our overall business strategy. Because [00:09:00] for one, our stakeholders are increasingly asking us to be more green, be more sustainable, set these goals.
Um, so we've got customers that are saying, hey, you're our scope 3, we need you to reduce. So we're saying, Hey, that's an important business imperative. Um, but on top of all of that, um, you know, different stakeholders saying it's getting more and more important with the global climate crisis. Uh, we're also saying AFL saying, Hey, we're going to do this because it's the right thing.
So we're really thankful for our leadership stepping up and saying that we're going to do this because it's, it's the right thing to do.
James Dice: Totally. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Um, so when you guys think about your tech stack before this project, your, it sounds like Excel was the tech stack. Uh, can you talk about like who was managing that?
You said, Lauren, it was originally just a team of you. Yeah,
she just raised
her hand. Yeah. [00:10:00] So can you talk about what that process was like? So starting with getting all this data and some sort of unruly spreadsheet. And kind of walk us through like what the problems were with that back then.
Lauren Trapp: Yeah. So started out with the spreadsheets, like Brandon said, and globally employees entering data.
But when I was brought on board, um, I was asked to, uh, start our next iteration, which was use of a homegrown system. So it's just a software that we were using for, um, for AFL. And I worked with our internal resources in IT. To build that system out and, um, it could actually prompt, uh, uh, users to enter in their data and they can actually attach utility bills.
And so it seemed like it was, you know, a big, you know, next step up from soft from spreadsheets. So it was, it was good, but the issue still remained that there was a lot of labor hours. [00:11:00] There was. You know, human error, uh, entering in the data, uh, had to go back and forth with people so many times, and it was very frustrating and just inefficient because I, I knew we could all be doing better things with our time.
Um, so, you know, we knew something could be better. Uh, we started looking into that. Um, And, and the other, the other piece of that is we were missing out on data insights, so we didn't have anything saying, Hey, you, your energy increased X amount over, you know, last month or over last year, um, during the same time, you might want to look into what's going on there.
And so. We, we definitely saw that there was a need. Um, Brandon did have to convince me to give up my homegrown system. I'm glad he did. I was a bit, I was a bit, you know, I'm used to this, but, um, he helped me to, to say, okay, I can, [00:12:00] I think this is better. It's a better way to go.
James Dice: Yeah. It's always a challenge going off of what, you know, and what's working because a lot of times.
Technology is not part of our job. Um, we have several projects going on internally right now that are, you know, we need to upgrade our systems, but you know, who does that? So Brandon, you came in at what point in this and sort of convinced Lauren that it's time to go digital.
Brandon Money: I think Lauren had poured a year's worth of blood, sweat, and tears into her homegrown solution, uh, before I arrived.
So I'm about a year less than Lauren at AFL.
James Dice: And when you guys started going down the software path, so replace the homegrown solution, what sort of options were you looking at? So Brandon, you mentioned that EnergyCap had a great reputation and you heard the grapevine that people were using them.
What was that process like for you guys in terms of, you know, evaluating different software options, choosing one, and sort of why did you make the selection that you did?
Brandon Money: We, uh, we solicited, we, we work with a consultant that, uh, we [00:13:00] use for a lot of things, but one of the things we commissioned them for was market analysis or demoing some of the options that were out there to determine feasibility for AFL using them.
We, we really, really wanted. Line item insight to energy data, which we did not have previously. We had generic usage, whether it was kilowatt hours for electricity or MMBTUs for natural gas, but no insight to, well, is that high? Is that low? Is that wrong? Uh, is that a duplicate of a previous entry? So the, really what we were going after was financial grade, accounting, or auditability of the easiest data for a company to get, which is their energy consumption.
James Dice: And when you say line item, um, you're talking about like a single meter mapping to a building, mapping to insights about how that [00:14:00]building uses energy or can you, can you. I've never heard that term before.
Brandon Money: Yeah, when I, when I say line item details, I'm, instead of just kilowatt hour usage on an electricity bill, I would like insight to what is our contracted demand or peak demand for the facility.
Okay. In Canada, are we, are we paying carbon taxes for natural gas usage? And if so, how much? That's what I mean by line item details of a utility bill.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. Really getting into more, like you said earlier, insights and, and what I sometimes call analytics around. Okay, the meter. Was billed at this, but what does that mean?
It seems like,
Brandon Money: yeah, spot on.
James Dice: Got it. And can you guys talk about the phases of deployment? So hired a consultant, helped you select a vendor energy cap. What was it like going from the, you know, the in house homegrown solution to, you know, deploying this software?
Brandon Money: You take your pains and your struggles from the past.
[00:15:00] So what is it you did not like about what you were using previously? Uh, we mentioned some of those, those things for us, uh, and then really get those things into a scope of work during the scoping process with, you know, whatever company you just decide to use. Uh, from there, once you're, you're able to scope what you need out of the software, work with that project management group to, to make sure that that's what gets delivered, uh, within that software.
James Dice: So you guys have project managers in house that can kind of run with Run with deploying something like this.
Brandon Money: I, I am your project manager. There you go. For this particular evolution. There you go. But yeah, I would say definitely someone that you can have dedicate some time to that. Um, you don't want to just get a turnkey solution that is given to you without having some insight to make sure it works.
Yeah,
James Dice: so as a, as the project manager here, [00:16:00] Brandon, what were the main phases of this? And I'm picturing this world where Lauren's doing everything and then going from that to taking that off her plate. And at some point, Lauren is freed up to do other things. Like, can you talk through like that progression?
Brandon Money: Yeah. I mean, a lot of the work that was done previously was valuable, but It's just a lot of time was being spent to maintain it. So I think that was the biggest thing in our scoping process was, Hey, we already know the names of our facilities. We know the addresses, the utility providers, the account numbers.
So we have a pretty good starting point. And from there, you know, you, we literally had one spreadsheet that had all of that information which made the energy cap project kickoff and the project management. Much, much easier because we almost just turned over the spreadsheet and said, Hey, build the, build the framework inside of there.
And then, [00:17:00] you know, we can go from there.
James Dice: And, and Lauren, what were the main points of, um, we've been saying labor savings, but it's really time that you get to repurpose to do other things. It seems like, so can you talk about the ways in which you save time each month?
Lauren Trapp: You know, it's like when, when one thing gets off your plate, it immediately gets filled.
So it's, I haven't got less busy. Um, You know, we've, we've looking at, uh, Brandon, looking at our scope one and two has really, um, allowed me freedom to look at other aspects of our sustainability and support, you know, our other team member who focuses on scope three. So looking into our supply chain emissions, um, product carbon footprint.
Information, working with our environmental engineer, um, and, uh, facility teams on, on, uh, recycling scrap, um, just, uh, maybe even like being able [00:18:00] to talk about what Brandon's doing and, and our team be able to work on presentations to explain it better, um, and get that buy in from our leadership. Um, we did a big effort as well to, when we started out our program to really formalize.
Um, and so that took a lot of education, um, and a lot of stakeholder engagement. So, um, still doing that all the time at different levels. Um, I say my job is just constantly educating. So by having, you know, our data for scope one and two, and Brandon focusing on that, um, it's freed me up to do, to, to help move our program forward in other ways.
Thanks.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. And just, just as Lauren, you're being freed up to do other stuff. It strikes me as this data is, and then these insights that you talked about, Brandon, are actually serving the energy management process. So can you talk about the ways in which the [00:19:00] software sort of helps you throughout the energy management process?
And let me sort of frame it. I used to be an energy manager myself. And so you're, um, it's not just collecting the data and getting it into one place, right? It's also then benchmarking each facility, comparing it to what it should be using, looking for opportunities to save, turning those into projects, doing the projects, measuring savings, all of that whole thing.
It seems like the software is basically the backbone throughout, throughout this whole thing. Can you talk a little bit more about how it helps you?
Brandon Money: I can. It sounds like you were reading directly off of EnergyCap's webpage of all the things that they do for you. Um, so yeah. No, that's
James Dice: just all my, all my experience, right?
Uh, a decade, a decade plus of, of doing, doing that process.
Brandon Money: Yeah, I mean, you know, they, EnergyCap has Plenty of energy minded folks on their team. Uh, so they know what's expected [00:20:00] out of energy managers or sustainability programs. So they do just that, uh, to the, to the details of, you know, not only tracking the utility usage at a facility, but going the extra step to connect to Energy Star to upload that data to Portfolio Manager, to Portfolio Manager.
Tracking projects within, um, the software itself. It's just, you know, we, we moved a lot of work off of Loren for data entry and verifying, but we really didn't make it hard on me because the data is, it comes in, it is audited through the software to recognize anomalies, to, to highlight things that just don't make sense.
It flags it and I can simply go in and look at, The flagged items that were, you know, recognized since the last time I looked at it, or, you know, send me a notification if this particular [00:21:00] flag shows up. So a lot of that work that, you know, your, your energy managers put in is, you're, you're assisted in energy cap with, with the recognizing of the, the, the big anomalies, I would say.
You're not going to get the details of. You know, reductions or increases in energy consumption, but you get insights that tell you to go look at it.
James Dice: Okay. And so it's not necessarily about freeing you up to do other things like it is for Lauren. It's kind of freeing you up to then actually go do projects.
It seems like to me, is that right?
Brandon Money: Yeah, you nailed it. It, it allows me to focus more on Our overall scope 1 and 2, reduction strategy, capital investment strategy, uh, all of the things that, um, I would say make the biggest difference in emissions reduction for scope 1 and 2. Uh, the, the on site solar installations, the capital budgeting, the developing bench strength for [00:22:00] energy audits and, you know, facility walkthroughs, and less time, uh, punching numbers into Excel.
James Dice: All right. So tell me then about the projects and the ways in which you save the business money and save carbon emissions using what you have found in the energy cap software. I
Brandon Money: should have wrote a lot of these down. I'll, I'll talk about some of the ones that. Jump to the forefront of my mind. Uh, leaks are a big deal.
Our, our energy cap is very helpful for leaks, uh, through that flagging process or the auditing process. If you see a location that suddenly looks like it started its own car, car wash, um, you're notified of that and you can reach out to, you know, facility manager and say, hey, you've got a water leak. Uh, we, we found, I want to say it was almost 15, 000 worth of.
Natural gas and water leaks, uh, just here in the, the Duncan, South Carolina [00:23:00] area. It, it could have been a broken irrigation pipe or another example was, uh, leaking natural gas lines going up to rooftop units. So, um, the leaks, uh, energy cap recognizes those before any of our people do, um, our people have yet to beat energy cap on, on recognizing those.
Um, rate structure review for me was a big one. So being able to evaluate time of use rate schedules versus commercial, looking at demand profiles to say, yeah, this facility is on. The wrong rate structure. Yeah. So a lot of insight provided there. And then we talked about giving me more times to focus on the big ticket items.
So, uh, we just published some of this recently in a sustainability report, but. Close to 30 projects with almost 2, 000, 000 kilowatt hours of savings. [00:24:00] For us that we track inside of energy cap, not so much the, the commissioning of projects, but just basic data, project name, costs, savings, payback, that type of information can be stored within energy cap.
James Dice: Yeah. And so the way I saw it in your report is that you add all that up and it's like 300 grand a year and savings in just the first year that you guys have been doing this, it's pretty, it's pretty impressive. Lauren, I'd love for you to like, talk about like, you look back on this and it seems pretty successful.
Can you talk about like, what, what your bosses and the C suite would say about this?
Lauren Trapp: I think that our boss is happy with, with, uh, what we've accomplished. Um, like Brandon said, his job, uh, or a big part of his job is to, um, pay for his salary or really just like save us money. And. I think that it's something that every [00:25:00] company says, yeah, that's a great idea.
We need to save money. We need to reduce energy. We need to be more sustainable, but actually having the tools and resources to do it is another thing. And so I think that. You know, there's only so much that a human can do. Um, and having these technology tools are just helping us to actually implement the goals that, that we want to achieve.
So. I would say that, you know, it's definitely a net positive, um, looking at how the software has, has helped and supported, um, Brandon and, you know, even consider the cost of the software, cost of our salaries, it's still like a net positive, uh, financially, as well as sustainability wise.
James Dice: Totally. And when you guys think about the types of [00:26:00]projects that you're doing, can you talk, like, make this a little bit more real for people?
Um, you mentioned gas pipes going up to a rooftop unit and finding leaks there. What are the other types of things that you're doing as a result of this software giving you these insights?
Brandon Money: I would say the biggest thing is just visibility. Uh, I didn't, I didn't talk so much about it. Uh, previously, any of your questions, but you mentioned C suite and how do they feel about it?
I love that we can create reports from EnergyCap to show, you know, whether it's just a basic facility manager report that gets some month over month, year over year usage or a fleet fuel usage summary to your Your fleet, um, representatives. I love that that aspect is inside of the software. As far as. I wouldn't say that the energy [00:27:00] cap goes and points to projects that we should go do, but it gives us a more of a holistic view of what's available within the facility from performing things like energy treasure hunts, energy audits, or just basic facility.
Upgrades that needed to happen, uh, somewhere to house that information. Not it's energy caps, not going to be a new energy manager for you or, or have like a, a CEM added to your staff, but it gives a repository for the information.
James Dice: Alright, cool. And what's next? So you guys mentioned this, the focus of this has been on scope one and two, but you also mentioned needing to get a handle on scope three.
So that might be what's next. But you can you guys talk about sort of where this program is headed, either from a technology standpoint or just in general,
Brandon Money: we have all of our scope three data. But it lives in Microsoft or yeah, Microsoft Excel currently, just because scope three is so complicated. Um, [00:28:00] Carbon Hub, uh, suite inside of Energy Cap provides the means for you to track that information.
Uh, it's on us to, uh, whether it's create APIs into the data or create some type of data upload structure to start building out scope three so we can have a holistic GHG footprint inside of the, uh,
James Dice: And can you talk about that? It seems super complicated. It seems like to me that there are a lot of other energy managers, sustainability leaders out there trying to figure out that same thing.
So can you talk about like what's in the spreadsheet and like how, like what goes into what data sources you need to tap into, how easy it is to then pull it into CarbonHub, can you talk about that? That journey that you're about to go on. For
Brandon Money: sure. So when we always start working down scope three categories, but when you look at category one, purchase goods and services, That information comes from some type [00:29:00] of business software, whether it's a consolidated asset suite, Oracle, SAP, Great Plains, whatever it is, that information exists somewhere.
Uh, you could, in the past, we would mass download every purchase made for the company, try to manually assign like, well, this product code actually means it's aluminum, or this one is a class product, or this is a residue or, you know, whatever it might be, um. So currently that's done via mass downloads of spreadsheets from systems like Oracle, and we have to manually structure and upload.
So what would be really nice is the use of artificial intelligence to read through that spreadsheet and auto assign, you know, what does this type of plastic actually mean, or what is this metal or mixture of metal and assign an emission factor to it. So for us inside of CarbonHub, that, that will be a manual process where we.
You know, we structure the data and then [00:30:00] upload it after we've manipulated it. So hopefully automating as much of that as possible. And then you have the same thing with some of the other categories such as like fleet, um, oh sorry, business travel or hotel stays for the company. All the extraneous data associated with company footprint.
It comes from Like our, our hotel stays might come from eight different types of reports from four different companies. It's complicated and it must be structured. So for us structuring it and getting a view of that inside of Carbon Hub will be great or some, some assistance, uh, with the Carbon Hub roadmap to maybe incorporate artificial intelligence to.
And
James Dice: then when you guys give reports to your customers who are asking for your scope 1, 2, and 3 for their scope 3, what is that process like in terms of [00:31:00] sharing that with them?
Lauren Trapp: It depends on the customer. Um, so a lot of customers will ask us. Uh, to report to third party platforms. So there's a CDP. Um, there is, uh, sometimes customers will have their own platforms that we report into.
Sometimes it'll be like an association that they made their own platform to put your data into. And a lot of the needs of our customers are, they really vary. And it depends on, you know, Their maturity and their pressures for their, um, carbon footprint reductions and their overall sustainability program.
So every customer has is different on their journey. Um, and you can kind of group it with, uh, we've heard the term dark green, uh, and light green, like there's a spectrum. So, uh, we're going to start using that now. So, uh, yeah. Uh, so for our dark [00:32:00] green clients, a lot of them are starting to ask for product carbon footprints.
And so that's where we're starting, they're really starting to get granular with the data that they're asking from us. And they really want to start tracking to that granularity so that they can track our actual improvements, uh, to the product level. And incorporate that into their scope 3 reductions and, uh, their overall greenness.
So yeah, it, it varies definitely, uh, from customer to customer. Some will ask, typically they'll ask for high level. They will do intensity factors based on something like your revenue and your emissions and apply that to the spend that you've had with them. But as companies are getting more mature, they're getting to that product carbon footprint level.
James Dice: I see. And do you guys think about this in terms of like, when you guys are competing with another carbon fiber solution, Like [00:33:00]obviously the more progress you make, the better you're going to look versus your competitors and therefore you might win more work and like that sort of thought process.
Lauren Trapp: Yeah.
We're definitely seeing, um, our customers, you know, we, we had an RFP or actually Well, a recent RFP where we were asked for our carbon footprint of the products that we sold, um, as well as the carbon footprint of the transportation. Um, so while they said that that's not a area that they're looking at, um, for award at this point, they're starting to ask that information.
They're starting to look into it and see what kind of insights they can glean, what kind of trends there are amongst, uh, others in our space and our competitors. So yeah, definitely thinking about it from that level of, of, you know, our, our customers and the value that we can bring to them, adding in that, you know, on top of, uh, everything [00:34:00] else that we provide, uh, the quality, the customer service, um, a lot of other pieces, you know, adding in that sustainability piece, to our overall customer service and offering.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. Yeah, we, we had a, um, a series of sessions at our conference this year called Digitize to Decarbonize, and I think it hopped up in quite a few of those sessions as well, that as you digitize, as you decarbonize that overlap, there's also business value that, that these organizations are seeing.
And it's not just expense reduction. It's also like top line revenue. Um, yeah. You know, and competitive, competitive, uh, stuff with their competitors. So, um, let's talk about lessons learned here. So let's get to sort of the, if, if I'm an energy manager or a sustainability leader at a similar organization, um, what we like to do on this podcast is share those lessons that you probably, you know, ran, run into on, on a [00:35:00] project like this.
Um, So that someone else can implement something like this more smoothly. So can you guys talk about like, what roadblocks did you hit and how did you overcome those roadblocks on this project?
Brandon Money: My advice or, you know, two cents for what it is, is sustainability, energy management, those things are tough. So, uh, consultants, uh, new hires within the company, partners or networking, uh, find, find partners that can meet you where you are in that journey.
Our needs are far different than, uh, the company right next door to us. Um, and then there are companies that have very mature, longstanding programs. So find people that will meet you where you are. And I think energy Cap, uh, was able, able to do that for us.
James Dice: And when you say tough, I want to like really get into what the challenges challenge was.
Is it lack of resources, lack of time, lack of money? What, what made [00:36:00] it so tough?
Brandon Money: All of those, um, when you say resources, we've, we've talked about the, the hiring strategy of AFL just for the sustainability team. There was no one. Lauren came in, realized, uh, she would drown by herself. So we made additional hires, uh, to support.
Um, and we've had to, to, you mentioned money. I think that's a, a common one. Capital funding to do some of these projects is common across. Uh, probably anybody you've had on the podcast. So yeah. Yeah. Getting. Getting support from our C suite on having a method to the mayhem when it comes to capital investment, whether it's an application process or dedicated funding, sustainability, I would say it's not cheap.
So yeah, you have to plan both from the capital and an expense budget standpoint that it will [00:37:00] cost money. But you mentioned earlier that there is potential We're almost guaranteed financial reward on the other end for being able to meet some of the requirements of what Lauren deemed as a dark green companies.
James Dice: And Lauren, as you think about like you, you got brought in, the budget was X, right? You guys have created savings. Now you're funding more than just you. Right. Um, can you talk about how you think about going next year and asking for a little bit more money because you've made these. How do you think about sort of building on the program every year?
Lauren Trapp: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, so I think that, you know, focusing more on the project side of things. And Brandon can probably speak to this a lot better than me. He's shown our C suite that we have these goals, like spelling it out. These are our goals that we've set. This is what [00:38:00] our customers, you know, Um, and then demonstrating, Hey, this is what we need to do financially to get there.
Like, like Brandon said, it's not cheap. Um, so I think that being transparent and upfront with your business leaders is really important and having a good business case. And even if, if it is going to be more expensive, explaining, you know, a lot of, you Most of the time energy projects are going to have an ROI.
It's just that, uh, the return is going to take longer. So, um, to Brandon's point, We're working to demonstrate other parts, other benefits of the project, um, like benefits to quality, benefits to, uh, safety, um, production, stuff like that. We're, we're tying that all in [00:39:00] to show that, hey, yeah, the ROI, it's, it's going to, the return is going to be a little bit longer, but.
There's other benefits that we can quantify right now that are going to benefit the business. So, you know, getting, getting leadership used to seeing, hey, this isn't just, well, financial is a big piece of it. It's not just finances that we're looking at. And I think that that can be kind of a change a lot of times for um, for leaders.
It depends on you know what they're used to and if they're used to just seeing capital and financial benefits of projects this is a bit different. So um, definitely walking them through that. And I think that, you know, if I could, I think that the key really is being transparent, building out a roadmap, um, saying that, hey, this is, it's going to be expensive, but this is what we're going to, so, like, having that end in mind [00:40:00] and, you know, Um, saying like, you know, this, these are our customers.
This is our stakeholders. I think it's important. I think, you know, that's really what we're going into this next fiscal year budget saying like, yeah, we're going to have an increase. There's going to be, you know, it's not cheap, but these are the reasons behind it. We're not just doing this just to do it.
So,
James Dice: Yeah, totally. All right. Thank you for the, the little double click on, on that challenge. What other challenges, uh, do you guys have that you've sort of overcome and would recommend people navigate?
Brandon Money: I'd like to say I make the energy management part of it easy. But no, it's, you'd be preaching to the choir if you started talking about all the challenges because they seem common to anybody I've ever talked to in sustainability.
Um, I think one [00:41:00] that I'm, I'm coming to realize more and more lately is, um, staffing. A lot of times sustainability is made a collateral duty of someone that is already. You know, doing some other job. So you, you take someone who is doing one job well, and you give them an additional one, and they start to do two jobs half well.
Yeah. So maybe, uh, there's a leader out there listening to the podcast that doesn't have a dedicated sustainability team that's torturing someone, uh, say from, uh, Facilities or another leader on their team, uh, it, it takes, it takes a village. So if you, if you want to make progress towards those goals, you've got to put the effort and the people and your money where your, your mouth is.
Lauren Trapp: And I'm, I'm thinking as we're talking this through, I'm thinking bigger than just software, but [00:42:00] again, I think that's something like, um, energy cap. Supports this, this bigger, uh, picture, which is, um, looking at risk and, you know, as things are evolving in the regulatory landscape, um, and sustainability issues like biodiversity, climate change are being seen as more, uh, bigger risk factors and, you know, investors looking at, um, sustainability data, uh, you've got governments looking at it, um, You know, citizens are concerned, so I think that, you know, another piece of the sustainability puzzle besides financial savings, um, you know, doing the right thing, which is, you know, all that's important, but looking at understanding your risk and addressing it, um, there's a lot more regulations that are coming out that, um, are calling for companies to look at their [00:43:00] risk and quantify their risk.
Uh, financially, uh, for sustainability issues. So, you know, just thinking from the, the leadership level, this is something that's very new for a lot of leaders, especially, you know, thinking about AFL, we're a privately owned company. Um, this is something that, you know, it's another piece of the pie that we're saying, Hey, sustainability is important here, and we're having to work with more stakeholders within finance, um, our risk management system.
So, um, Having robust data, having, uh, data that's auditable and that is traceable is key to, um, the, the, the rigor that's coming with these regulations and the demand for, uh, data being third party validated. And so, um, That is just one of another, I don't know if you call it, like, it's a challenge, it's a [00:44:00] key takeaway, whatever, but, uh, definitely important to have your data in a good system because spreadsheets just aren't going to cut it, uh, just having your, your data and, and.
An explorer, whatever file explorer is, you're going to fall on your face. So we're going through all of that right now. We're still, we're living it. We're that's another thing, area that we're moving towards besides, uh, just, you know, scope three and product carbon footprinting is this whole new space of regulatory compliance.
That's
James Dice: fascinating. What else haven't I heard from you guys that, um, would be helpful for the listeners to know that we haven't covered yet? Anything?
Brandon Money: Well, James, I think you've interrogated us pretty well here.
James Dice: Yeah. If it's fired questions at you for pulled it all out, huh? Well, Lauren, what's the, um, big finger behind you, the, the thing behind on the shelf there.
I see your CEM certificate, maybe. No, I'm not
Lauren Trapp: a [00:45:00] CEM. I'm a certified sustainable development professional, and this is my. Number one AFL. Yeah, it's by A E E.
Brandon Money: Yeah. Like the
Lauren Trapp: C A C E M, but I haven't gone for that. Brandon's our C. E. M. I've
Brandon Money: got
Lauren Trapp: my ACDC hat. Program that we're in for, uh,
Brandon Money: Don't get her started on flowers, James.
Don't, don't get her started.
James Dice: Okay. She's also got orchids. Yeah, yeah. Everybody that's watching this on video on YouTube right now is going Getting a tour of Lauren's desk, but, uh, for those of you on audio, we will let everyone go. I wanted to say thank you to both of you for, uh, sort of like lifting up the hood on, on your sustainability program and just showing us how important that digital backbone is.
It seems like. It seems like what, based on what you just said, Lauren, how could you do it without this? Uh, I don't, I don't know how you would, you would answer all of those, those requests. So, uh, thank [00:46:00] you both for giving us your two different perspectives and we really appreciate it.
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"Making it so that there are streamline workflows and technology behind getting our data into systems is critical to supporting our overall sustainability goals. Using software to help us with energy management has helped us to focus more on broader goals and actions more so than just data analysis.â
âLauren Trapp
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Episode 170 is a conversation with Lauren Trapp and Brandon Money from AFL.
Episode 170 features Lauren Trapp and Brandon Money from AFL and is our 14th episode in the Case Study series looking at real-life, large-scale deployments of smart building technologies. These are not marketing fluff stories, these are lessons from leaders that others can put into use in their smart buildings programs. This conversation explores AFLâs use of technology to modernize and optimize its energy management processes and to reduce energy consumption across their facilities. Enjoy!
Monologue from Lauren (0:00)
Introduction (1:45)
Introduction to Lauren (2:19)
Introduction to Brandon (2:48)
Types of buildings in the portfolio (3:57)
Project overview (5:47)
Tech stack (10:00)
Project types (22:17)
Future of the program (27:50)
Lessons learned (35:02)
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Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S657598-16073.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
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Lauren Trapp: [00:00:00] Automation of our data and making it so that there are streamlined workflows and technology behind getting our data into systems is really critical to supporting our overall sustainability goals and It really just helps with, uh, workload, um, helps with gathering insights that would otherwise take hours and a lot of time, a lot of focus to identify and still relying on human, uh, ability and capability to find those.
And so by using the software to help us with energy management, it's really helped us to focus more on our broader sustainability goals and actual action. And, more so than just a mundane data collection and data analysis.
James Dice: Hey friends, if you liked the Nexus [00:01:00] podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community. There are three ways to do that. First, you can join the Nexus Pro Membership. It's our global community of smart building professionals. We have monthly events, paywall deep dive content, and a private chat room, and it's just 35 a month.
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The links are below in the show notes. And now let's go on to the podcast.
Welcome to the Nexus podcast. This is the latest episode in our series, diving into case studies of real life, large scale deployments of smart buildings technologies. And we're not here to create a marketing fluff story. We're here to like basically share real lessons from leaders that others can put to use in their [00:02:00] programs.
So today we have a story coming from AFL, a global leader in fiber optics solutions. AFL has used technology to modernize and optimize its energy management processes and significantly reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions across their facilities. So I have Brandon and Lauren here. Why don't you guys introduce yourselves?
Let's start with you, Lauren.
Lauren Trapp: I'm Lauren Trapp and I am the Sustainability Manager at AFL. And I've been here for almost going on three years now. I've kicked off our, that was our first sustainability hire. So helped to kick off our sustainability program. So really proud of the work that we've put in, uh, with our team, Brandon and everyone else, uh, to, to get to where we are today and still a long road to go.
James Dice: Awesome. How about you, Brandon?
Brandon Money: I'm Brandon Money, Global Energy Manager for AFL and Lauren's partner in crime. Really focus on all things scope one and scope two emissions related for AFL.
James Dice: And [00:03:00] Brandon, I feel like there's some sort of joke here around you saving AFL money and your last name being money.
Does that get used quite a bit?
Brandon Money: Yeah you, you Typically you get jokes from time to time with a last name, like money, but I do tell people that as an energy manager one of my jobs is to justify my pay. So, if I'm not at least finding my salary and savings each year, then I Maybe we should hire someone else that, that can do that.
James Dice: Makes perfect sense.
Lauren Trapp: He, he helps, he helps with mine too, justifying my salary as well.
James Dice: Yeah. Well, you guys have quite a bit of, um, savings to talk about in this, um, as a, as a preview for the listeners here. Um, so for people that don't know AFL, can you guys talk about, um, What is, what is fiber optic solutions and just talk about, um, how that, you know, relates to the, the type of buildings in your portfolio, how many buildings, what's the portfolio look like to give [00:04:00] people a sense of what type of buildings we're talking about.
Brandon Money: When you, when you talk about fiber optics for AFL, uh, multiple things going on there, we, we manufacture fiber optic cable. Um, do a lot of work for things like, uh, data centers with the data center boom, currently ongoing, uh, also have aluminum conductor accessories business where we do some, some metal pouring and forming, um, and then a, a large services, uh, Organization where we install the components that we make.
A lot of times you should just think of like NFL stadiums, like the current Mercedes Benz, Super Bowl upgrades, uh, antenna systems and wifi. That's our services, uh, division. We operate about 13 ish manufacturing sites and another 50 some odd, uh, warehouses, offices, services, uh, locations. Total operational square footage.
We're looking around 3 million square feet. [00:05:00]
James Dice: Got it. So when you talk about scope one and two emissions, you're talking about, um, and your manufacturing sites, electric and gas usage mostly.
Brandon Money: Yeah. When we, we do our footprint, we look at operational control. So anywhere where we're manufacturing or it could just be storing, uh, warehousing components, and then that encompasses also like our offices, sales offices.
Locations like that.
James Dice: Got it. And, um, we're, we're going to talk about a case study today and in which you guys deployed Energy Caps software. Can you talk about when did that project start? Just give us some high level results, um, successes on that project before we sort of dig into the deeper story.
Brandon Money: Yeah, of course.
We, we started looking. Say back in 2022 timeframe at, uh, softwares that could help. Well, I say 2022, we did a lot of manual data entry. Um, [00:06:00] I call it energy caps, biggest competitor, uh, Microsoft Excel, getting a lot of data in there. A lot of manual data collection from random accounts, payable folks, or EHS representatives.
It was. It was a hurdle to, to get all of just the basic data that we required to perform a greenhouse gas footprint. So, uh, started looking at a few softwares on the market, uh, to really, to start with Scope 1 and Scope 2. Your, your fuel usages, your electricity consumption, and then hopefully from there transition to Our, our largest source of emissions, which is our scope three emissions.
So in that search for software, we, we know energy cap or, or had heard through the grapevine that they were the sort of end all be all for all things, utility management, um, web capture services or bill capture [00:07:00] services to connect directly to utility providers, uh, through, you know, data collection, auditing.
And then ultimately, uh, with their carbon hub solution, calculating the greenhouse gas emissions associated with that raw utility data. So, our search really began on trying to ease the pain that was hours and hours spent on data collection and structuring that data. So, we've had that, or been with EnergyCaps, uh, we started mid 2023, uh, couple, couple weeks or months of project management integration, getting, uh, all in to the software was complete by the end of, uh, 2023.
James Dice: Got it. And, um, Lauren, I want to ask you about the Bigger Picture Sustainability Program. Do you guys have a carbon emissions target that you're, um, sort of out to measure against and track progress [00:08:00]towards, um, and where does this sort of, um, funnel up to the C Suite and their, you know, their business goals?
Lauren Trapp: Yeah, so we do, um, we have committed to science based targets initiative. So we have, uh, reduction goals in our scope 1 and 2 emissions. So for electricity purchase, um, as well as our natural gas, our gasoline, diesel. Uh, so we're looking at about 50, 5 0 percent reduction, uh, in 10 years. And then also we have, um, a scope 3 goal.
To reduce absolute emissions by 30 percent over that same time frame. Uh, so scope 3 being our value chain emissions and, um, so for AFL, these goals are. Aligning with our, you know, like you said, our C suite and our overall business strategy. Because [00:09:00] for one, our stakeholders are increasingly asking us to be more green, be more sustainable, set these goals.
Um, so we've got customers that are saying, hey, you're our scope 3, we need you to reduce. So we're saying, Hey, that's an important business imperative. Um, but on top of all of that, um, you know, different stakeholders saying it's getting more and more important with the global climate crisis. Uh, we're also saying AFL saying, Hey, we're going to do this because it's the right thing.
So we're really thankful for our leadership stepping up and saying that we're going to do this because it's, it's the right thing to do.
James Dice: Totally. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Um, so when you guys think about your tech stack before this project, your, it sounds like Excel was the tech stack. Uh, can you talk about like who was managing that?
You said, Lauren, it was originally just a team of you. Yeah,
she just raised
her hand. Yeah. [00:10:00] So can you talk about what that process was like? So starting with getting all this data and some sort of unruly spreadsheet. And kind of walk us through like what the problems were with that back then.
Lauren Trapp: Yeah. So started out with the spreadsheets, like Brandon said, and globally employees entering data.
But when I was brought on board, um, I was asked to, uh, start our next iteration, which was use of a homegrown system. So it's just a software that we were using for, um, for AFL. And I worked with our internal resources in IT. To build that system out and, um, it could actually prompt, uh, uh, users to enter in their data and they can actually attach utility bills.
And so it seemed like it was, you know, a big, you know, next step up from soft from spreadsheets. So it was, it was good, but the issue still remained that there was a lot of labor hours. [00:11:00] There was. You know, human error, uh, entering in the data, uh, had to go back and forth with people so many times, and it was very frustrating and just inefficient because I, I knew we could all be doing better things with our time.
Um, so, you know, we knew something could be better. Uh, we started looking into that. Um, And, and the other, the other piece of that is we were missing out on data insights, so we didn't have anything saying, Hey, you, your energy increased X amount over, you know, last month or over last year, um, during the same time, you might want to look into what's going on there.
And so. We, we definitely saw that there was a need. Um, Brandon did have to convince me to give up my homegrown system. I'm glad he did. I was a bit, I was a bit, you know, I'm used to this, but, um, he helped me to, to say, okay, I can, [00:12:00] I think this is better. It's a better way to go.
James Dice: Yeah. It's always a challenge going off of what, you know, and what's working because a lot of times.
Technology is not part of our job. Um, we have several projects going on internally right now that are, you know, we need to upgrade our systems, but you know, who does that? So Brandon, you came in at what point in this and sort of convinced Lauren that it's time to go digital.
Brandon Money: I think Lauren had poured a year's worth of blood, sweat, and tears into her homegrown solution, uh, before I arrived.
So I'm about a year less than Lauren at AFL.
James Dice: And when you guys started going down the software path, so replace the homegrown solution, what sort of options were you looking at? So Brandon, you mentioned that EnergyCap had a great reputation and you heard the grapevine that people were using them.
What was that process like for you guys in terms of, you know, evaluating different software options, choosing one, and sort of why did you make the selection that you did?
Brandon Money: We, uh, we solicited, we, we work with a consultant that, uh, we [00:13:00] use for a lot of things, but one of the things we commissioned them for was market analysis or demoing some of the options that were out there to determine feasibility for AFL using them.
We, we really, really wanted. Line item insight to energy data, which we did not have previously. We had generic usage, whether it was kilowatt hours for electricity or MMBTUs for natural gas, but no insight to, well, is that high? Is that low? Is that wrong? Uh, is that a duplicate of a previous entry? So the, really what we were going after was financial grade, accounting, or auditability of the easiest data for a company to get, which is their energy consumption.
James Dice: And when you say line item, um, you're talking about like a single meter mapping to a building, mapping to insights about how that [00:14:00]building uses energy or can you, can you. I've never heard that term before.
Brandon Money: Yeah, when I, when I say line item details, I'm, instead of just kilowatt hour usage on an electricity bill, I would like insight to what is our contracted demand or peak demand for the facility.
Okay. In Canada, are we, are we paying carbon taxes for natural gas usage? And if so, how much? That's what I mean by line item details of a utility bill.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. Really getting into more, like you said earlier, insights and, and what I sometimes call analytics around. Okay, the meter. Was billed at this, but what does that mean?
It seems like,
Brandon Money: yeah, spot on.
James Dice: Got it. And can you guys talk about the phases of deployment? So hired a consultant, helped you select a vendor energy cap. What was it like going from the, you know, the in house homegrown solution to, you know, deploying this software?
Brandon Money: You take your pains and your struggles from the past.
[00:15:00] So what is it you did not like about what you were using previously? Uh, we mentioned some of those, those things for us, uh, and then really get those things into a scope of work during the scoping process with, you know, whatever company you just decide to use. Uh, from there, once you're, you're able to scope what you need out of the software, work with that project management group to, to make sure that that's what gets delivered, uh, within that software.
James Dice: So you guys have project managers in house that can kind of run with Run with deploying something like this.
Brandon Money: I, I am your project manager. There you go. For this particular evolution. There you go. But yeah, I would say definitely someone that you can have dedicate some time to that. Um, you don't want to just get a turnkey solution that is given to you without having some insight to make sure it works.
Yeah,
James Dice: so as a, as the project manager here, [00:16:00] Brandon, what were the main phases of this? And I'm picturing this world where Lauren's doing everything and then going from that to taking that off her plate. And at some point, Lauren is freed up to do other things. Like, can you talk through like that progression?
Brandon Money: Yeah. I mean, a lot of the work that was done previously was valuable, but It's just a lot of time was being spent to maintain it. So I think that was the biggest thing in our scoping process was, Hey, we already know the names of our facilities. We know the addresses, the utility providers, the account numbers.
So we have a pretty good starting point. And from there, you know, you, we literally had one spreadsheet that had all of that information which made the energy cap project kickoff and the project management. Much, much easier because we almost just turned over the spreadsheet and said, Hey, build the, build the framework inside of there.
And then, [00:17:00] you know, we can go from there.
James Dice: And, and Lauren, what were the main points of, um, we've been saying labor savings, but it's really time that you get to repurpose to do other things. It seems like, so can you talk about the ways in which you save time each month?
Lauren Trapp: You know, it's like when, when one thing gets off your plate, it immediately gets filled.
So it's, I haven't got less busy. Um, You know, we've, we've looking at, uh, Brandon, looking at our scope one and two has really, um, allowed me freedom to look at other aspects of our sustainability and support, you know, our other team member who focuses on scope three. So looking into our supply chain emissions, um, product carbon footprint.
Information, working with our environmental engineer, um, and, uh, facility teams on, on, uh, recycling scrap, um, just, uh, maybe even like being able [00:18:00] to talk about what Brandon's doing and, and our team be able to work on presentations to explain it better, um, and get that buy in from our leadership. Um, we did a big effort as well to, when we started out our program to really formalize.
Um, and so that took a lot of education, um, and a lot of stakeholder engagement. So, um, still doing that all the time at different levels. Um, I say my job is just constantly educating. So by having, you know, our data for scope one and two, and Brandon focusing on that, um, it's freed me up to do, to, to help move our program forward in other ways.
Thanks.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. And just, just as Lauren, you're being freed up to do other stuff. It strikes me as this data is, and then these insights that you talked about, Brandon, are actually serving the energy management process. So can you talk about the ways in which the [00:19:00] software sort of helps you throughout the energy management process?
And let me sort of frame it. I used to be an energy manager myself. And so you're, um, it's not just collecting the data and getting it into one place, right? It's also then benchmarking each facility, comparing it to what it should be using, looking for opportunities to save, turning those into projects, doing the projects, measuring savings, all of that whole thing.
It seems like the software is basically the backbone throughout, throughout this whole thing. Can you talk a little bit more about how it helps you?
Brandon Money: I can. It sounds like you were reading directly off of EnergyCap's webpage of all the things that they do for you. Um, so yeah. No, that's
James Dice: just all my, all my experience, right?
Uh, a decade, a decade plus of, of doing, doing that process.
Brandon Money: Yeah, I mean, you know, they, EnergyCap has Plenty of energy minded folks on their team. Uh, so they know what's expected [00:20:00] out of energy managers or sustainability programs. So they do just that, uh, to the, to the details of, you know, not only tracking the utility usage at a facility, but going the extra step to connect to Energy Star to upload that data to Portfolio Manager, to Portfolio Manager.
Tracking projects within, um, the software itself. It's just, you know, we, we moved a lot of work off of Loren for data entry and verifying, but we really didn't make it hard on me because the data is, it comes in, it is audited through the software to recognize anomalies, to, to highlight things that just don't make sense.
It flags it and I can simply go in and look at, The flagged items that were, you know, recognized since the last time I looked at it, or, you know, send me a notification if this particular [00:21:00] flag shows up. So a lot of that work that, you know, your, your energy managers put in is, you're, you're assisted in energy cap with, with the recognizing of the, the, the big anomalies, I would say.
You're not going to get the details of. You know, reductions or increases in energy consumption, but you get insights that tell you to go look at it.
James Dice: Okay. And so it's not necessarily about freeing you up to do other things like it is for Lauren. It's kind of freeing you up to then actually go do projects.
It seems like to me, is that right?
Brandon Money: Yeah, you nailed it. It, it allows me to focus more on Our overall scope 1 and 2, reduction strategy, capital investment strategy, uh, all of the things that, um, I would say make the biggest difference in emissions reduction for scope 1 and 2. Uh, the, the on site solar installations, the capital budgeting, the developing bench strength for [00:22:00] energy audits and, you know, facility walkthroughs, and less time, uh, punching numbers into Excel.
James Dice: All right. So tell me then about the projects and the ways in which you save the business money and save carbon emissions using what you have found in the energy cap software. I
Brandon Money: should have wrote a lot of these down. I'll, I'll talk about some of the ones that. Jump to the forefront of my mind. Uh, leaks are a big deal.
Our, our energy cap is very helpful for leaks, uh, through that flagging process or the auditing process. If you see a location that suddenly looks like it started its own car, car wash, um, you're notified of that and you can reach out to, you know, facility manager and say, hey, you've got a water leak. Uh, we, we found, I want to say it was almost 15, 000 worth of.
Natural gas and water leaks, uh, just here in the, the Duncan, South Carolina [00:23:00] area. It, it could have been a broken irrigation pipe or another example was, uh, leaking natural gas lines going up to rooftop units. So, um, the leaks, uh, energy cap recognizes those before any of our people do, um, our people have yet to beat energy cap on, on recognizing those.
Um, rate structure review for me was a big one. So being able to evaluate time of use rate schedules versus commercial, looking at demand profiles to say, yeah, this facility is on. The wrong rate structure. Yeah. So a lot of insight provided there. And then we talked about giving me more times to focus on the big ticket items.
So, uh, we just published some of this recently in a sustainability report, but. Close to 30 projects with almost 2, 000, 000 kilowatt hours of savings. [00:24:00] For us that we track inside of energy cap, not so much the, the commissioning of projects, but just basic data, project name, costs, savings, payback, that type of information can be stored within energy cap.
James Dice: Yeah. And so the way I saw it in your report is that you add all that up and it's like 300 grand a year and savings in just the first year that you guys have been doing this, it's pretty, it's pretty impressive. Lauren, I'd love for you to like, talk about like, you look back on this and it seems pretty successful.
Can you talk about like, what, what your bosses and the C suite would say about this?
Lauren Trapp: I think that our boss is happy with, with, uh, what we've accomplished. Um, like Brandon said, his job, uh, or a big part of his job is to, um, pay for his salary or really just like save us money. And. I think that it's something that every [00:25:00] company says, yeah, that's a great idea.
We need to save money. We need to reduce energy. We need to be more sustainable, but actually having the tools and resources to do it is another thing. And so I think that. You know, there's only so much that a human can do. Um, and having these technology tools are just helping us to actually implement the goals that, that we want to achieve.
So. I would say that, you know, it's definitely a net positive, um, looking at how the software has, has helped and supported, um, Brandon and, you know, even consider the cost of the software, cost of our salaries, it's still like a net positive, uh, financially, as well as sustainability wise.
James Dice: Totally. And when you guys think about the types of [00:26:00]projects that you're doing, can you talk, like, make this a little bit more real for people?
Um, you mentioned gas pipes going up to a rooftop unit and finding leaks there. What are the other types of things that you're doing as a result of this software giving you these insights?
Brandon Money: I would say the biggest thing is just visibility. Uh, I didn't, I didn't talk so much about it. Uh, previously, any of your questions, but you mentioned C suite and how do they feel about it?
I love that we can create reports from EnergyCap to show, you know, whether it's just a basic facility manager report that gets some month over month, year over year usage or a fleet fuel usage summary to your Your fleet, um, representatives. I love that that aspect is inside of the software. As far as. I wouldn't say that the energy [00:27:00] cap goes and points to projects that we should go do, but it gives us a more of a holistic view of what's available within the facility from performing things like energy treasure hunts, energy audits, or just basic facility.
Upgrades that needed to happen, uh, somewhere to house that information. Not it's energy caps, not going to be a new energy manager for you or, or have like a, a CEM added to your staff, but it gives a repository for the information.
James Dice: Alright, cool. And what's next? So you guys mentioned this, the focus of this has been on scope one and two, but you also mentioned needing to get a handle on scope three.
So that might be what's next. But you can you guys talk about sort of where this program is headed, either from a technology standpoint or just in general,
Brandon Money: we have all of our scope three data. But it lives in Microsoft or yeah, Microsoft Excel currently, just because scope three is so complicated. Um, [00:28:00] Carbon Hub, uh, suite inside of Energy Cap provides the means for you to track that information.
Uh, it's on us to, uh, whether it's create APIs into the data or create some type of data upload structure to start building out scope three so we can have a holistic GHG footprint inside of the, uh,
James Dice: And can you talk about that? It seems super complicated. It seems like to me that there are a lot of other energy managers, sustainability leaders out there trying to figure out that same thing.
So can you talk about like what's in the spreadsheet and like how, like what goes into what data sources you need to tap into, how easy it is to then pull it into CarbonHub, can you talk about that? That journey that you're about to go on. For
Brandon Money: sure. So when we always start working down scope three categories, but when you look at category one, purchase goods and services, That information comes from some type [00:29:00] of business software, whether it's a consolidated asset suite, Oracle, SAP, Great Plains, whatever it is, that information exists somewhere.
Uh, you could, in the past, we would mass download every purchase made for the company, try to manually assign like, well, this product code actually means it's aluminum, or this one is a class product, or this is a residue or, you know, whatever it might be, um. So currently that's done via mass downloads of spreadsheets from systems like Oracle, and we have to manually structure and upload.
So what would be really nice is the use of artificial intelligence to read through that spreadsheet and auto assign, you know, what does this type of plastic actually mean, or what is this metal or mixture of metal and assign an emission factor to it. So for us inside of CarbonHub, that, that will be a manual process where we.
You know, we structure the data and then [00:30:00] upload it after we've manipulated it. So hopefully automating as much of that as possible. And then you have the same thing with some of the other categories such as like fleet, um, oh sorry, business travel or hotel stays for the company. All the extraneous data associated with company footprint.
It comes from Like our, our hotel stays might come from eight different types of reports from four different companies. It's complicated and it must be structured. So for us structuring it and getting a view of that inside of Carbon Hub will be great or some, some assistance, uh, with the Carbon Hub roadmap to maybe incorporate artificial intelligence to.
And
James Dice: then when you guys give reports to your customers who are asking for your scope 1, 2, and 3 for their scope 3, what is that process like in terms of [00:31:00] sharing that with them?
Lauren Trapp: It depends on the customer. Um, so a lot of customers will ask us. Uh, to report to third party platforms. So there's a CDP. Um, there is, uh, sometimes customers will have their own platforms that we report into.
Sometimes it'll be like an association that they made their own platform to put your data into. And a lot of the needs of our customers are, they really vary. And it depends on, you know, Their maturity and their pressures for their, um, carbon footprint reductions and their overall sustainability program.
So every customer has is different on their journey. Um, and you can kind of group it with, uh, we've heard the term dark green, uh, and light green, like there's a spectrum. So, uh, we're going to start using that now. So, uh, yeah. Uh, so for our dark [00:32:00] green clients, a lot of them are starting to ask for product carbon footprints.
And so that's where we're starting, they're really starting to get granular with the data that they're asking from us. And they really want to start tracking to that granularity so that they can track our actual improvements, uh, to the product level. And incorporate that into their scope 3 reductions and, uh, their overall greenness.
So yeah, it, it varies definitely, uh, from customer to customer. Some will ask, typically they'll ask for high level. They will do intensity factors based on something like your revenue and your emissions and apply that to the spend that you've had with them. But as companies are getting more mature, they're getting to that product carbon footprint level.
James Dice: I see. And do you guys think about this in terms of like, when you guys are competing with another carbon fiber solution, Like [00:33:00]obviously the more progress you make, the better you're going to look versus your competitors and therefore you might win more work and like that sort of thought process.
Lauren Trapp: Yeah.
We're definitely seeing, um, our customers, you know, we, we had an RFP or actually Well, a recent RFP where we were asked for our carbon footprint of the products that we sold, um, as well as the carbon footprint of the transportation. Um, so while they said that that's not a area that they're looking at, um, for award at this point, they're starting to ask that information.
They're starting to look into it and see what kind of insights they can glean, what kind of trends there are amongst, uh, others in our space and our competitors. So yeah, definitely thinking about it from that level of, of, you know, our, our customers and the value that we can bring to them, adding in that, you know, on top of, uh, everything [00:34:00] else that we provide, uh, the quality, the customer service, um, a lot of other pieces, you know, adding in that sustainability piece, to our overall customer service and offering.
James Dice: Yeah, totally. Yeah, we, we had a, um, a series of sessions at our conference this year called Digitize to Decarbonize, and I think it hopped up in quite a few of those sessions as well, that as you digitize, as you decarbonize that overlap, there's also business value that, that these organizations are seeing.
And it's not just expense reduction. It's also like top line revenue. Um, yeah. You know, and competitive, competitive, uh, stuff with their competitors. So, um, let's talk about lessons learned here. So let's get to sort of the, if, if I'm an energy manager or a sustainability leader at a similar organization, um, what we like to do on this podcast is share those lessons that you probably, you know, ran, run into on, on a [00:35:00] project like this.
Um, So that someone else can implement something like this more smoothly. So can you guys talk about like, what roadblocks did you hit and how did you overcome those roadblocks on this project?
Brandon Money: My advice or, you know, two cents for what it is, is sustainability, energy management, those things are tough. So, uh, consultants, uh, new hires within the company, partners or networking, uh, find, find partners that can meet you where you are in that journey.
Our needs are far different than, uh, the company right next door to us. Um, and then there are companies that have very mature, longstanding programs. So find people that will meet you where you are. And I think energy Cap, uh, was able, able to do that for us.
James Dice: And when you say tough, I want to like really get into what the challenges challenge was.
Is it lack of resources, lack of time, lack of money? What, what made [00:36:00] it so tough?
Brandon Money: All of those, um, when you say resources, we've, we've talked about the, the hiring strategy of AFL just for the sustainability team. There was no one. Lauren came in, realized, uh, she would drown by herself. So we made additional hires, uh, to support.
Um, and we've had to, to, you mentioned money. I think that's a, a common one. Capital funding to do some of these projects is common across. Uh, probably anybody you've had on the podcast. So yeah. Yeah. Getting. Getting support from our C suite on having a method to the mayhem when it comes to capital investment, whether it's an application process or dedicated funding, sustainability, I would say it's not cheap.
So yeah, you have to plan both from the capital and an expense budget standpoint that it will [00:37:00] cost money. But you mentioned earlier that there is potential We're almost guaranteed financial reward on the other end for being able to meet some of the requirements of what Lauren deemed as a dark green companies.
James Dice: And Lauren, as you think about like you, you got brought in, the budget was X, right? You guys have created savings. Now you're funding more than just you. Right. Um, can you talk about how you think about going next year and asking for a little bit more money because you've made these. How do you think about sort of building on the program every year?
Lauren Trapp: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, so I think that, you know, focusing more on the project side of things. And Brandon can probably speak to this a lot better than me. He's shown our C suite that we have these goals, like spelling it out. These are our goals that we've set. This is what [00:38:00] our customers, you know, Um, and then demonstrating, Hey, this is what we need to do financially to get there.
Like, like Brandon said, it's not cheap. Um, so I think that being transparent and upfront with your business leaders is really important and having a good business case. And even if, if it is going to be more expensive, explaining, you know, a lot of, you Most of the time energy projects are going to have an ROI.
It's just that, uh, the return is going to take longer. So, um, to Brandon's point, We're working to demonstrate other parts, other benefits of the project, um, like benefits to quality, benefits to, uh, safety, um, production, stuff like that. We're, we're tying that all in [00:39:00] to show that, hey, yeah, the ROI, it's, it's going to, the return is going to be a little bit longer, but.
There's other benefits that we can quantify right now that are going to benefit the business. So, you know, getting, getting leadership used to seeing, hey, this isn't just, well, financial is a big piece of it. It's not just finances that we're looking at. And I think that that can be kind of a change a lot of times for um, for leaders.
It depends on you know what they're used to and if they're used to just seeing capital and financial benefits of projects this is a bit different. So um, definitely walking them through that. And I think that, you know, if I could, I think that the key really is being transparent, building out a roadmap, um, saying that, hey, this is, it's going to be expensive, but this is what we're going to, so, like, having that end in mind [00:40:00] and, you know, Um, saying like, you know, this, these are our customers.
This is our stakeholders. I think it's important. I think, you know, that's really what we're going into this next fiscal year budget saying like, yeah, we're going to have an increase. There's going to be, you know, it's not cheap, but these are the reasons behind it. We're not just doing this just to do it.
So,
James Dice: Yeah, totally. All right. Thank you for the, the little double click on, on that challenge. What other challenges, uh, do you guys have that you've sort of overcome and would recommend people navigate?
Brandon Money: I'd like to say I make the energy management part of it easy. But no, it's, you'd be preaching to the choir if you started talking about all the challenges because they seem common to anybody I've ever talked to in sustainability.
Um, I think one [00:41:00] that I'm, I'm coming to realize more and more lately is, um, staffing. A lot of times sustainability is made a collateral duty of someone that is already. You know, doing some other job. So you, you take someone who is doing one job well, and you give them an additional one, and they start to do two jobs half well.
Yeah. So maybe, uh, there's a leader out there listening to the podcast that doesn't have a dedicated sustainability team that's torturing someone, uh, say from, uh, Facilities or another leader on their team, uh, it, it takes, it takes a village. So if you, if you want to make progress towards those goals, you've got to put the effort and the people and your money where your, your mouth is.
Lauren Trapp: And I'm, I'm thinking as we're talking this through, I'm thinking bigger than just software, but [00:42:00] again, I think that's something like, um, energy cap. Supports this, this bigger, uh, picture, which is, um, looking at risk and, you know, as things are evolving in the regulatory landscape, um, and sustainability issues like biodiversity, climate change are being seen as more, uh, bigger risk factors and, you know, investors looking at, um, sustainability data, uh, you've got governments looking at it, um, You know, citizens are concerned, so I think that, you know, another piece of the sustainability puzzle besides financial savings, um, you know, doing the right thing, which is, you know, all that's important, but looking at understanding your risk and addressing it, um, there's a lot more regulations that are coming out that, um, are calling for companies to look at their [00:43:00] risk and quantify their risk.
Uh, financially, uh, for sustainability issues. So, you know, just thinking from the, the leadership level, this is something that's very new for a lot of leaders, especially, you know, thinking about AFL, we're a privately owned company. Um, this is something that, you know, it's another piece of the pie that we're saying, Hey, sustainability is important here, and we're having to work with more stakeholders within finance, um, our risk management system.
So, um, Having robust data, having, uh, data that's auditable and that is traceable is key to, um, the, the, the rigor that's coming with these regulations and the demand for, uh, data being third party validated. And so, um, That is just one of another, I don't know if you call it, like, it's a challenge, it's a [00:44:00] key takeaway, whatever, but, uh, definitely important to have your data in a good system because spreadsheets just aren't going to cut it, uh, just having your, your data and, and.
An explorer, whatever file explorer is, you're going to fall on your face. So we're going through all of that right now. We're still, we're living it. We're that's another thing, area that we're moving towards besides, uh, just, you know, scope three and product carbon footprinting is this whole new space of regulatory compliance.
That's
James Dice: fascinating. What else haven't I heard from you guys that, um, would be helpful for the listeners to know that we haven't covered yet? Anything?
Brandon Money: Well, James, I think you've interrogated us pretty well here.
James Dice: Yeah. If it's fired questions at you for pulled it all out, huh? Well, Lauren, what's the, um, big finger behind you, the, the thing behind on the shelf there.
I see your CEM certificate, maybe. No, I'm not
Lauren Trapp: a [00:45:00] CEM. I'm a certified sustainable development professional, and this is my. Number one AFL. Yeah, it's by A E E.
Brandon Money: Yeah. Like the
Lauren Trapp: C A C E M, but I haven't gone for that. Brandon's our C. E. M. I've
Brandon Money: got
Lauren Trapp: my ACDC hat. Program that we're in for, uh,
Brandon Money: Don't get her started on flowers, James.
Don't, don't get her started.
James Dice: Okay. She's also got orchids. Yeah, yeah. Everybody that's watching this on video on YouTube right now is going Getting a tour of Lauren's desk, but, uh, for those of you on audio, we will let everyone go. I wanted to say thank you to both of you for, uh, sort of like lifting up the hood on, on your sustainability program and just showing us how important that digital backbone is.
It seems like. It seems like what, based on what you just said, Lauren, how could you do it without this? Uh, I don't, I don't know how you would, you would answer all of those, those requests. So, uh, thank [00:46:00] you both for giving us your two different perspectives and we really appreciate it.
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